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MAKE BRADFORD BRITISH
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who watched it???
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Ive seen it and this website http://www.guardian.c...ritish-channel-4-race sumed it up for me.
"But what Make Bradford British didn't do is create an accurate portrayal of what life is like living there. We don't hear a single voice from the eastern European community, which is an established part of the city, with Ukrainian and Polish communities thriving for more than 50 years. Instead the focus is on the same old conflict of the white working-class against Pakistani and southern Asian immigrants, with a mention of the city's black communities."
"But what Make Bradford British didn't do is create an accurate portrayal of what life is like living there. We don't hear a single voice from the eastern European community, which is an established part of the city, with Ukrainian and Polish communities thriving for more than 50 years. Instead the focus is on the same old conflict of the white working-class against Pakistani and southern Asian immigrants, with a mention of the city's black communities."
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i used to live there, right in the centre...hated it... was not treated well by the asian community... even some were quite sinister and scary.
many local shops had no price tags on things and i was witness to being charged more for things than other asians...
and the sudden inability to speak or understand english was forever present which was very frustrating...
some were 'nice' but no more than a 'polite' nice... never friendly.
the young asain lads hanging about and driving round in souped up cars were pretty intimidating and abusive - always after a 'white b1tch'...
the list goes on and on...
even so, when a white girl walked up to me and gave me a piece of paper with 'white cabs' written on it and said it was a firm of white cab drivers for white people, i was horrified at the blatant racism ... yet found myself actually using them most... too many experiences of overcharging and been driven all over the world or even wrong addresses because of the language barrier
i know some who lived on the outskirts and liked it...it kind of gets whiter andwhiter the further out you get...
im very sad to say this ... and i utterly hate racism in all its forms - (past posts on here can demonstrate that) but you had to be there...
many local shops had no price tags on things and i was witness to being charged more for things than other asians...
and the sudden inability to speak or understand english was forever present which was very frustrating...
some were 'nice' but no more than a 'polite' nice... never friendly.
the young asain lads hanging about and driving round in souped up cars were pretty intimidating and abusive - always after a 'white b1tch'...
the list goes on and on...
even so, when a white girl walked up to me and gave me a piece of paper with 'white cabs' written on it and said it was a firm of white cab drivers for white people, i was horrified at the blatant racism ... yet found myself actually using them most... too many experiences of overcharging and been driven all over the world or even wrong addresses because of the language barrier
i know some who lived on the outskirts and liked it...it kind of gets whiter andwhiter the further out you get...
im very sad to say this ... and i utterly hate racism in all its forms - (past posts on here can demonstrate that) but you had to be there...
I thought it was really good and I read Nailit's link to the Guardian and Lanre Bakare should watch the programme again with an objective view since Bradford is his birthplace. The paragraph quoted by Nailit to me sums up what the prog was not about. It was not about describing what life is like in Bradford or even Bradford itself.
The city was chosen for the reason that there is segregation there. As Damon said that he would walk around the Muslim areas but after the experiment he will now walk through those areas. That was success.
I know Bakare says 'there is more to Bradford than just race', but the programme was about race and misconceived false perceptions of race, based on colour and culture. And what was good was that we saw this from a multitude of angles from all the main people and from afar such as Maura's husband who made one comment that multiculturalism is difficult because when is a question asked going too far? This is just after Mohammed walks out.
Joko, I have a massive fault of speaking out and I was moved by your post. I already write posts too long so I would just like to say that racism exists on both sides and any sides experience is horrific.
We as a larger community should work together to overcome all racism, the starting point being to rid ourselves of false deep rooted perceptions whether created by religion or simply the colour of one's skin.
I'm not saying love your neighbour, what I am saying is that whatever you think of your neighbour, treat them with respect as we are all after human. (unless they are genuine assholes) only then can we move towards eliminating racism.
Joko thank you for sharing your story, with the experiment in the programme ending positively these barriers we can overcome.
The city was chosen for the reason that there is segregation there. As Damon said that he would walk around the Muslim areas but after the experiment he will now walk through those areas. That was success.
I know Bakare says 'there is more to Bradford than just race', but the programme was about race and misconceived false perceptions of race, based on colour and culture. And what was good was that we saw this from a multitude of angles from all the main people and from afar such as Maura's husband who made one comment that multiculturalism is difficult because when is a question asked going too far? This is just after Mohammed walks out.
Joko, I have a massive fault of speaking out and I was moved by your post. I already write posts too long so I would just like to say that racism exists on both sides and any sides experience is horrific.
We as a larger community should work together to overcome all racism, the starting point being to rid ourselves of false deep rooted perceptions whether created by religion or simply the colour of one's skin.
I'm not saying love your neighbour, what I am saying is that whatever you think of your neighbour, treat them with respect as we are all after human. (unless they are genuine assholes) only then can we move towards eliminating racism.
Joko thank you for sharing your story, with the experiment in the programme ending positively these barriers we can overcome.
I've just caught up with the latest episode on 4OD. Great show with some quite wonderful people (with some exceptions).
I found Mohammed's behaviour very odd – stamping his foot to summon his wife or daughter (because he doesn't like to shout) and then completely blowing his top at a question about an interracial relationship. I thought the man was a bit of a berk for walking out on Maura's dinner party; stomping off down the street whilst shouting into his phone for his wife to pick him up in the car.
I think that Sabbiyah, Desmond, Maura and Audrey are great. Not too sure yet about Damon, Rashid, Jens and (for the reasons mentioned above) Mohammed.
I found Mohammed's behaviour very odd – stamping his foot to summon his wife or daughter (because he doesn't like to shout) and then completely blowing his top at a question about an interracial relationship. I thought the man was a bit of a berk for walking out on Maura's dinner party; stomping off down the street whilst shouting into his phone for his wife to pick him up in the car.
I think that Sabbiyah, Desmond, Maura and Audrey are great. Not too sure yet about Damon, Rashid, Jens and (for the reasons mentioned above) Mohammed.
Birdie...I know what you saying about Mohammed storming off. I have an opinion on what I think happened........I think that Mohammed is basically one of the asian lads that Joko refers to. Not that Mohammed would use the derogatory language openly but I don't think his thinking is too far of what those lads think of 'whites'.
The reason why I say this is because what sparked him of was that interracial question - What would he do if his daughter had a 'white' boyfriend? This thought is unthinkable to Mohammed. Why? Because as a night-time bouncer, in a segregated city, his limited view of English youths are as young drunkens, loud-mouthed, vomiting and irresponsible. And I think according to him he would not have his daughter engaging with people in that environment who act like that.
He associates that narrow behaviour as 'English culture', I think he uses the word 'Britishness'? And this is where an important issue is raised, that of racism on both sides due to wrong perceptions. Hence why he could not even entertain the thought?
And that's one reason the programme was so interesting, we saw racism from many different angles.
That's my opinion.
The reason why I say this is because what sparked him of was that interracial question - What would he do if his daughter had a 'white' boyfriend? This thought is unthinkable to Mohammed. Why? Because as a night-time bouncer, in a segregated city, his limited view of English youths are as young drunkens, loud-mouthed, vomiting and irresponsible. And I think according to him he would not have his daughter engaging with people in that environment who act like that.
He associates that narrow behaviour as 'English culture', I think he uses the word 'Britishness'? And this is where an important issue is raised, that of racism on both sides due to wrong perceptions. Hence why he could not even entertain the thought?
And that's one reason the programme was so interesting, we saw racism from many different angles.
That's my opinion.
seadragon... thank you
i dont think mohammeds reaction was to do with a perceotion of beer swilling layabouts...no father would want their daughter with a lad who did all that stuff, regardless of colour...i think his reaction was more deep seated than merely seeing a few bad eggs late at night.
i think he was basically racist and took part in the show either for the hell of it -he was obviously pretty arrogant and probably wanted to show his mates how hes the king of his castle.
i dont think he was truly open to the message they were trying to portray... he had no intention of changing his attitude... it is easy to polite to a kindly old lady, but as soon as faced with anything more thought provoking, he couldnt handle the scrutiny...his violent storm out showed there was more to it... and yes he probably was one of these lads i mentioned...
the proble with shows like this is that they prove nothing as the people who agree to be involved are already 'halfway there', and clearly people who are open and want to change things and are of the better natured of people... they do not show the people who are fiercely racist and abusive...and who nothing will change their opinions - on both sides.
they considered a white b!tch as a badge of honour ... one lad barged up to my lone friend, and put his hand on her belly, rubbed it a bit and leered ' mmm ripe'...
she was understandably terrified and ran away ... there were many incidents.
they know whites are a minority in that particular area and enjoy the power they feel it gives them.
( just to note that of course not every single asian person i met was bad and had issues, many i am sure were perfectly nice... i just didnt see very many of them... even the politeness was perfunctory... i am very polite in shops, as i worked behind a til... and to have someone not make eye contact with you, not sepak just take your cash and stare ahead... and when asked an question would just either point or shrug and mumble at you - almost every day - then to watch then become animated when serving an asian person - was pretty rude)
i dont think mohammeds reaction was to do with a perceotion of beer swilling layabouts...no father would want their daughter with a lad who did all that stuff, regardless of colour...i think his reaction was more deep seated than merely seeing a few bad eggs late at night.
i think he was basically racist and took part in the show either for the hell of it -he was obviously pretty arrogant and probably wanted to show his mates how hes the king of his castle.
i dont think he was truly open to the message they were trying to portray... he had no intention of changing his attitude... it is easy to polite to a kindly old lady, but as soon as faced with anything more thought provoking, he couldnt handle the scrutiny...his violent storm out showed there was more to it... and yes he probably was one of these lads i mentioned...
the proble with shows like this is that they prove nothing as the people who agree to be involved are already 'halfway there', and clearly people who are open and want to change things and are of the better natured of people... they do not show the people who are fiercely racist and abusive...and who nothing will change their opinions - on both sides.
they considered a white b!tch as a badge of honour ... one lad barged up to my lone friend, and put his hand on her belly, rubbed it a bit and leered ' mmm ripe'...
she was understandably terrified and ran away ... there were many incidents.
they know whites are a minority in that particular area and enjoy the power they feel it gives them.
( just to note that of course not every single asian person i met was bad and had issues, many i am sure were perfectly nice... i just didnt see very many of them... even the politeness was perfunctory... i am very polite in shops, as i worked behind a til... and to have someone not make eye contact with you, not sepak just take your cash and stare ahead... and when asked an question would just either point or shrug and mumble at you - almost every day - then to watch then become animated when serving an asian person - was pretty rude)
Yes, I take the same point Joko that I think Mohammed is subconsciously racist and I think this realisation dawned on him when asked the question and he responded by saying - I thought this was about me not my family - or something along those lines.
I think he has a negative view of 'white' people and I admire that he was prepared to confront that by this experiment but I don't think he thought about how 'ingrained' his views are. It's like someone saying 'I am not a racist but I don't want a black marrying into my family', instead of giving other reasons than skin colour?
I genuinely think that the people who partook faced ugly truths about their views, in my opinion they were not half-way there because for example Audrey made the biggest change by putting up anti-racist signs in the pub with Sabbiyah at the end, when she held accepted racial views she considered 'normal' the experiment showed her those views were actually racist.
But I think the most interesting issue raised by the programme, or the impression I was left with is that...where do these racist views, on both sides, come from? What in society has shaped these views that are becoming so ingrained? And how do we as a society/community address that?
I think he has a negative view of 'white' people and I admire that he was prepared to confront that by this experiment but I don't think he thought about how 'ingrained' his views are. It's like someone saying 'I am not a racist but I don't want a black marrying into my family', instead of giving other reasons than skin colour?
I genuinely think that the people who partook faced ugly truths about their views, in my opinion they were not half-way there because for example Audrey made the biggest change by putting up anti-racist signs in the pub with Sabbiyah at the end, when she held accepted racial views she considered 'normal' the experiment showed her those views were actually racist.
But I think the most interesting issue raised by the programme, or the impression I was left with is that...where do these racist views, on both sides, come from? What in society has shaped these views that are becoming so ingrained? And how do we as a society/community address that?
Interesting discussion. I tend to agree with both of you. I don't know if Mohammed is a racist but it's clear that he cannot contemplate, let alone articulate, his feelings about the possibility of an interracial relationship within his own family. Jen's almost Mohammed's mirror image. I think that both of these guys have an underlying racist element to their subconscious.
It made me cringe when I head some of the stupidly insensitive things that Jen said. He was in the back of a taxi, taking Desmond to a brass band practise and he said (paraphrasing), “You'll like this. There's one of your lot in the band.”! I don't think that Jen's a literal racist; his racism (if indeed, that's what it is) is casual and unthinking. He just seems unaware that his words can deeply offend. Thankfully, he seems to be learning fast.
It made me cringe when I head some of the stupidly insensitive things that Jen said. He was in the back of a taxi, taking Desmond to a brass band practise and he said (paraphrasing), “You'll like this. There's one of your lot in the band.”! I don't think that Jen's a literal racist; his racism (if indeed, that's what it is) is casual and unthinking. He just seems unaware that his words can deeply offend. Thankfully, he seems to be learning fast.
I watched and found the programme illuminating to a point the only problem with this format is who they get to agree to participate. Some were moved and saw things differently (albeit temporarily) others more static in their views, why Mohammed could not have simply said he wished not to answer the question re mixed relationships, rather than storm off - is something only he can answer. Overall it was but a tiny foray into the world of acceptance, who knows what is to come.
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