Self-Defense

[Clanad]

Not really a question, but possibly a helpful tid-bit...

Of course, here in the U.S. (especially here in the west), self-defense for oneself and family can be liberally applied through the ownership of any number of firearms... long guns or hand-guns... but for those not so inclined (or unable)... buy an inexpensive spray can of wasp killer, like this: http://www.drugstore....=338666&aparam=194942 ...

If you experience, what is called here, a home invasion or other threat of bodily harm you'll find this very helpful. Thing is, pepper sprays only have a useful range of maybe three to five feet often resulting in the assailant being able to overpower you before you can actually use it to disable him. The Wasp spray will completely debilitate a person with an overwhelming burning of the eyes, nose and mouth, (completely reversable at any hospital or medical service), yet has a range of thirty to forty feet. I've seen it demonstrated and the spray is concentrated in a thin stream which is very aimable and easily reaches 25 feet or so...

Our local Sheriff's Department highly recommends it (right after ownership of an appropriate hand gun) and has given several informative talks on the substance...

[d9f1c7]

Looks good Clanad, unfortunately we'd probably get prosecuted for that. In the UK the law favours the trespasser. I'm pretty sure the spray to which you refer is sadly illegal for us.

[jake-the-peg]

Well let's hope you're not burgled by a spectacle wearer

[heathfield]

Here's where Uk law differs from that of the US. UK law does not differentiate between a defensive and an offensive weapon. If you're attacked, and grab something that's to hand to defend yourself, that's one thing, and can be argued that it's self defence. But - if you keep a golf club behind your front door to use in case of attack, that's something else. The law would interpret use of the the latter as 'aforethought', meaning you'd planned to use it to cause harm to someone. In the UK that classes the golf club as an offensive weapon, and not defensive. The wasp spray would be looked upon in this regard if a court decided you'd kept handy it to repel an attack. You'd have to prove to the court that it was the first thing your eye fell on when you were being attacked. A common expression here is that ''The law is an ass!''

[sandyRoe]

In the US states where anyone can own a gun is burglary much of a problem?

[Baldric]

First rule of self-defence;

Get your retaliation in first.

[Frank97]

Not much use if the attacker is up wind then?

[FredPuli43]

Not quite correct. You can have any weapon or anything intended for use as a weapon at home, apart from nearly all guns; 5 years minimum jail sentence for simply possessing one, unless it's a licensed shotgun of standard type. It's only an offence to carry such a thing as a weapon in a public place. . Having it for self-defnce in a publlic place is no defence to the charge.

We apply common law rules of self-defence. There's more ignorance spouted about that in the tabloids than anything else in law. You may use any amount of force, including killing someone, if the force is "reasonable", that is to say proportionate to the threat at the time, to defend yourself and anyone else, and the law does not require you to weigh to nicety how much force is strictly needed. The tabloids make a great fuss about protecting burglars, but the reality is that anyone who has killed or seriously hurt a burglar is liable to be detained, arrested, for questioning to find out how it happened. If the burglar was already fleeing down the street, then running after him and attacking him won't be self -defence!

We had a case some years ago when two armed men tried to rob a gun shop. The owner and an assistant were present. Another assistant came from the back of the shop and shot one man dead. He wasn't even charged. It was reasonable to protect the owner, who was threatened. That's how we apply the principles.

[Clanad]

Um... here's me thinking a simple solution to an unfortunately common problem that should be shared with our U.K. Cousins... It's a completely foreign[i (pun only slightly intended) concept that a person can't defend themselves. Known here as the [i]Castle[i] concept... a man's home (and family) is his castle and can be defended at all costs.

Sandy's question is ironic in that where [i]Conceal Carry] permits are issued (granting the right to carry a concealed weapon with a government background check and training course) burglaries and more especailly, armed robberies have seen a major decrease in numbers.

Not far from where I live a few weeks ago, a man attempted to rob a small cafe in a small town at knife point. Within a few seconds, three of the customers having pie and coffee pulled their concealed handguns and disarmed the would-be robber until the Sherrif arrived. Rule one... don't bring a knife to a gun fight!

[FredPuli43]

Difference really is Clanad , that Americans shoot one another and themselves all the time, often fatally. We don't; compare the figures. That's why only a few thousand of our police, I think it's 6.500 or so, are authorised to carry a firearm at all, and only a few of them do so all the time; the rest are officers who are called out when the presence of armed officers is called for.

We don't like the idea of people having weapons in publlc places. We think it causes more illegal acts than it could ever prevent. Since we cannot think why anybody would want to own a handgun, let alone carry one, you may see that we may extend he same thinking to flick knives (switchblades) and other weapons.

In your cafe example, what difference did the guns make? Is it the law in that state that the citizens were allowed to shoot the man if he didn't drop the knife, or if he fled ?

[wildwood]

To be fair in the Cafe example... if the robber fled surely he would think twice about doing that again. On the other hand... would he bring a gun next time?

I have a steel 'stick' with a vicious hook hanging behind the hall door, this is a tool conveniently stored to lower the ceiling space flap, honestly!

[sith123]

if that hepened in the UK we would be arrested. The culprit has more rights than the victim for gods sake lol.