Signing a letter for someone else

[warpig1]

This is probably not the correct section but didn't know where to post it.

Please settle a office argument (handbags at dawn). When you sign a letter on someone elses behalf you write pp in the 'margin'.

1. What does pp stand for, and;

2. At what name do you write pp at, ie if you are signing for someone else do you write it before your signature or before their name.

Many thanks,
warpig1

[Goofy]

before their name.
I think it is per pro, but can't remember what the literal translation is. It means on behalf of, which is why it is before their name.

[jno]

I thought the same as Goofy but have now looked it up. Apparently it comes from Latin per procurationem - 'through the agency of' - which in effect means 'by', so you should put it before your own name, not that of the person you're signing for. However, says my OED, it's now widely taken to mean 'on behalf of' and so is commonly put before the other person's name.

I guess that means either way is acceptable. Not sure if that will save your handbags or not.

[warpig1]

Thanks for your help guys.

I thought it should be before my name if I am signing it as jno says. May decide not to tell my colleagues that it is acceptable both ways and just say I am right. Well it is Friday after all, what better way to wind them up for the weekend!!!!

warpig :-0)

[Susiewong]

I always put pp before the other person name

[jno]

yep, you can always shut people up by quoting Latin at them, warpig!

[warpig1]

Ecce, in arborem est puella, puella est Cornelia.

First form latin, impressive or what?

[Dustybun]

why is Cornelia in the tree? :o)

[warpig1]

Dustybun - smartypants, lol. don't know, something to do with Sextus I think, he was a naughty boy!

[pandabear]

I was taught that the translation of per procurationem (per pro) was -

By delegation to

the name of the party to (say) the contract was written first
and the pp / per pro was written before the signature of the person 'authorised' to sign on their behalf?

[warpig1]

so pandabear, the pp should go in front of the person who is actually signing the letter, right? I knew it! Great, still got two hours to go on and on and on about how I was right and they (losers) were all wrong. Yippee.

thanks everyone.

[goldenfield]

pp
abbrev: pages; per procurationem (), by proxy (also per pro (), for and on behalf of); pianissimo (); past participle.

According to Chambers can be either so doesn't seem anyone can be considered 'right'.

[warpig1]

well since none of my colleagues know about Ab or how I got the answers and since I have been going on about it all afternoon I have decided to make a management decision.

Management decision - I'm right.

[jno]

excellent management belloporco

[Dustybun]

excuse me - don't you mean belloporcouno?!! :o)

[jno]

well, I suppose it might be bellaporcauna since warpig seems to be female, or perhaps bellaporcaI (that's a Roman numeral rather than an L)

here's one:

http://www.cerberusart.com/images/joeart/warpi g.jpg

[johnalex]

Very impressed with your Latin warpig1 - all I remember is:
Caesar adsum jam forte, passus sum sede . . . .

[Dustybun]

I remember that one!
Caesar adsum jam forte
Pompeii adarat
Caesar sic in omnibus
Pompeii sic in at!
Thanks for the memories.......! :o)

[j_h-67]

per pro = for and on behalf of, and is written before their name.