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"bunch of fives"

Avatar Image TIR
16:49 on Tue 14/Dec/04

How old is the saying "A bunch of Fives"?  I found it in a book on boxing dating from the 1820s, but has anyone found it earlier?

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Quizmonster
(18:16 on Tue 14/Dec/04) I presume the 1820s reference you have is in CM Westmacott's 'English Spy', published in 1825. That is certainly the earliest-recorded instance of its use. Dickens used the phrase in 'Pickwick Papers', but that was not until 1837.
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TIR
(19:12 on Fri 17/Dec/04)
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The reference which I had found was page 607 of Volume 3 of Boxiana by Pierce Egan, published in 1821, where it says "Caper sauce and bunches of fives may be had gratis".  I can't claim to have read  volumes 1 & 2 (published 1818) from cover to cover, so there may be earlier references to the phrase in this work.  It caught my eye because Egan was describing boxing matches which were held in the Fives Court on St Martin's Street, London.  In that venue, a "bunch of fives" sounds all the more appropriate.
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Quizmonster
(21:43 on Fri 17/Dec/04)

'Fives' as the name of the game played by hand on a 'fives court' dates back at least to the 1600s, which is long before the use of 'fives' to mean just 'the hand' as in 'a bunch of fives'. My Westmacott reference is offered by the 'OED' as the oldest recorded use of the phrase, but yours seems to predate that by five years at least.

It would be interesting to see more of the surrounding words than the one short sentence you've provided. I'm not even too sure what your sentence actually means, to be honest! Does it mean you can have caper sauce and a smack in the mouth if you want them?

If the reference is as you say, I would get in touch with the 'OED' people and point out your earlier version...it might then appear in a future edition! 

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