Choosing a school/religion.

[flip-flop]

This Q possibly shouldn't be in this section - but it is news in my house at the mo and I'd like opinions from the wider community that appear to populate the news section.

The first three choices for my four year old have all been turned down - all three are within walking distance and all three are linked to churches.

We have been offered a place at a school that is not linked to a church, but it does involve a drive - and has a crappy ofsted report.

Two sets of Neighbours have had their kids accepted at the church linked schools - they happen to attend the church.

I have been informed by three very snotty school receptionists that my child would have been accepted had we been church goers.

Is this discrimination? Discrimination wouldn't be allowed if my child was disabled or black, brown or yellow, so why is she being discriminated against simply because her parents don't happen to believe in god or religion?

We didn't move to our area for the schools - our daughter came along long after we had moved here.

Naturally we are going to appeal - but is this type of discrimination allowed?

[jake-the-peg]

Personally I didn't want to send my children to a church school. I tend to think that a good ofstead report is a poor exchange for having your kids indoctrinated.

"Give me a child until he's 7 and I'll give you the man" goes the Jesuit saying .

[Oneeyedvic]

Maybe illegal in 20 days time - maybe you should wait? http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/20071092.htm

[matty1]

I don't think it's discrimation. Naturally if they are church schools they would prefer parents, kids to go to church.

[littleone85]

I personally believe it is discrimination and i hope that your appeal will be successful. However I suspect that the people you appeal against will insist that since it is a religious school, the child should be of that religion and your LEA would back them, i suspect there is probably a clause exempting them from discrimination on religious grounds. Its a pity that being honest has meant that you can't get your child into the desired school whereas i'm sure some parents at that school have lied about their religion and been able to get a place. When I was at school (a religious school) there was a child in my class whose parents weren't religious, weren't married and the child had not been baptised and he was able to get in but i expect that this was because there was there were more places at the school available than the demand for places (way before the modern minefield of battling to get kids into the desired school) it sounds like the schools you have a applied for are in demand so they'll prioritise the children of religious families, would you consider accepting the offer from the admittedly inferior school (so your child does at least have a school place somewhere) and continuing the appeal and hopefully they'll relent or if not wait until they school year starts and see if they have any places left that they might give to a non religious child? regardless of the faith of the school, full classes=full LEA budget allowance, they're not stupid, they'd rather have some non religious pupils than not get the full budget .
I hope it works out for you.

[sp1814]

flip-flop

Never thought of it that way, but I suppose there's no point in faith schools being in existance if children not of that faith were to attend.

For instance, in the states, there are military schools, so the scion of pacifists wouldn't be expected to attend. Likewise, if you aren't of a particular faith, and the best schools in your area are Catholic, then your kids shouldn't be chosen over those who are actually Catholic (or Jewish, or Muslim etc).

Harsh but fair I reckon.

[flip-flop]

I wouldn't mind so much if there were plenty of non church linked schools in the area, but there aren't - church schools outnumber non-church schools by about 6 to 1.

Plus (and I know I'm going to get hammered here) I can't stand people driving their kids to school - I've moaned and moaned about it for years, so I simply couldn't bring myself to agree to a school that involved Mrs Flop driving her there. Rightly or wrongly I despise people who drive their kids to school and then return home - which is exactly what would happen in our house (we took the rather old fashioned decision that when our child came along she would be raised by a parent and not a child-minder, as a result of which Mrs Flop doesn't work).

[infundibulum]

Sensible advice jake-the-peg .The attributed Jesuit quote I heard is "Give me a child till the age of seven and it will be moulded for life ". Can understand you're not keen to drive your child to school. When the school rolls started declining in Scotland , a golden oppurtunity arose for excellence in teaching standards to be attainable, only to be discarded by short sighted authorities knee-jerk cost cutting mentality.Our precious future citizens literally 'sold out'. The elite do not want competition on a level playing field. Go see your local councillor and tell him you will get as many of your aquaintances to vote him out unless you get your choice. Good luck.

[gedk]

I completely sympathise with you flip-flop, my husband and I are not religious and my son is almost three and has recently been accepted at the nursery of the church funded RC / C of E primary school 5 minutes walk from where I live. He has only got a place there because the nursery is always under-subscribed however I know that there is no way he will get a place in the reception class unless my husband and I start attending the church. The school is very good and I want my son to go there so I am now faced with the dilemma of whether we do what countless other parents do and go to church for 12 months and then stop once he has his place in the school or not bother and accept the fact that we will have to move him to another school away from the friends he will have made in nursery and like yourself endure the dreaded "school run"! The church attached to this school even hands out "tokens" which you have to collect and you need a certain amount to gain a place in the school, they don't give them out every week though only now and again so you have to attend every week just in case, there is even a register where you sign in so they can check how often you attend!!

[Haggisdj]

Wasn't there a discussion by the government recently about religious schools with the outcome being that they have to accept a certain percentage of pupils not of their faith??

[jake-the-peg]

Yep and the government backed down!

But then Tony Blar is a roaring Christian.

I have nothing against private religous schools but in a country where church attendance is now just a few percent I see no reason why we should pay for them

[Whickerman]

To play devil's advocate here - would you be happy if you were religious, and your child couldn't attend your church school because people of a different faith took their place? These churches will argue that they took the time to set up these schools, so they should choose their pupils.
I can't see a strong argument against that...

[Ethel]

If the school was of Moslem, Jewish, Sikh faith (as examples of the many world faiths) would you still want your child to attend?

Would it matter as you seem to think it is fine for your child to attend a Church of England school even though you have no links with that school?

[ummmm]

I think it's fair....We have only one Catholic school (upper) where I live. There admissions are..

1. Catholics coming from Catholic primary schools
2. Catholics coming from non Catholic primary schools
3. Catholic siblings of students already attending the school
4. Non Catholic siblings of students
5. Non Catholics

Why should we as Catholics risk losing places for our children because non Catholics want to send thier children there because the school is either close by or has a good ofsted.

[saxy_jag]

A school with a lousy OFSTED report can be a good thing. On the one hand, it can mean the staff are going ahead and doing their own thing, hence not conforming to the 'norm' and actually turning out kids who can think and act for themselves. It can also mean that they're working hard to bring it up to standard, so things can only get better.

Personally, I would stay as far away from a church school as I possibly could.

[flip-flop]

some people are missing the point: we want to go to one of our local schools becuase they are just that. Local. I really couldn't give a tinker's cuss that they are church schools.

I just find it utterly utterly absurd that we have three schools all within a five to ten minute walk and yet we are faced with the possibility of adding to the morning traffic because the school that has been offerred is five miles away.

That is just absolutely bananas.

[Ric.ror]

As a catholic attending mass every week I should have a say as to who does or does not attend the schools I am chossing to financially support. If my local school had a good grading, was closer to me but was not a catholic school I would (and did as it happens) still walk 1.5 miles each morning to take my sons to a catholic school. I believe its about making a conviction and standing by it. if you are not religious why would you want to send your child to a religious school? It does not make any sense whatever to me