German Domination Says Heseltine

[emmie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39380606

[emmie]

is he right

: The UK is handing control of Europe's destiny to Germany by leaving the EU, Lord Heseltine has claimed.

The Tory peer, sacked as a government adviser after defying the whip over Brexit, said the Germans had lost World War Two but the UK was now giving them the "opportunity to win the peace".

[woofgang]

He may be right, he may not. The fact is that the government stated that they would abide by the result of the referendum and the result of the referendum was to leave. What I do think that he is very wrong about is his “we know better therefore this should not be allowed to happen even though the public voted for it” attitude.

[emmie]

is he just yesterdays man ?

[ichkeria]

Is he really harping on about the aftermath of WWII 70 years on?
Germany won the peace years ago, and it is true that a Europe with Britain at the heart of it will leave Germany even more as the undisputed major power. But there are worse countries that could be in that position.

[ichkeria]

* without Britain at the heart of it

[andy-hughes]

Hesletine is like Blair and Major - yesterday's men who can't quite grasp that their opinions are neither relevant or required any more.

[DTCwordfan]

Suggest that a few here read Kissinger's Diplomacy and there is a very strong argument to saying that we are screwing up, as since Metternich's time and, in fact, since we lost Calais, we have provided the balancing factor in European politics in balancing the overall equation to who was the underdog. Out - and we lose this.

[andy-hughes]

DTCrosswordfan - I have not read the book, but I note that it was written in 1994 - that's twenty-three years ago.

The diplomatic and political maps of the world have changed very considerably since then - I am unsure how relevant Doctor Kissinger's insights remain today.

[DTCwordfan]

try reading it and then comment.....it is a brilliant book and very much still relevant.

[DTCwordfan]

(and also beautifully written in terms of his prose - and this from a man who spoke English with one heck of a slurred accent - a revelation and his command of history and logic, exceptional....I presume, by that comment, you are dismissing other weighty tomes by 20th and 19th century historians and philosophers....there goes JS Mills in your book and many more)

[Jackdaw33]

What on earth has the loss of Calais, in 1558, got to do with it? Heseltine is a two-faced hypocrite. This is the man who would quite happily see us under the German jackboot.

[DTCwordfan]

And andy, just for the record, he takes it his diplomacy history up to the end of the 1st world war and then the lasting legacy of Woodrow Wilson as to 20th Century US hegemony and how that has impacted on latter day politics, Trump just the latest in a line of that introspective US attitude.....and, that in itself, is quite frightening.

[DTCwordfan]

we lost Calais in 1558, Jackdaw, not 1858, the point being that the UK has acted very much as a balancing factor in European politics so as not to let any one/two country alliance dominate the rest....so, in short, we have generally always sided with the underdogs to keep that balance.

[DTCwordfan]

sorry, read 1858, need to go to specsavers but the point still holds...!

[gl556tr]

A-H: I whole-heartedly agree. Heseltine, Blair, and Major -- and many more who want to stick their useless spanners in a robust BRexit stance -- are yesterday's men. Their opinions on this matter are neither relevant nor required any more.
They should go to Brussels-dominated Europe. BRexit has been democratically decided. So, do allow No. 10 et al to proceed as the majority of voters wished - and not make the road to UK self-rule any more difficult than that declared by certain Brussels leaders.

[DTCwordfan]

doesn't mean that they are right, by the precedent of European history though. However, I am sure we will exert that balancing factor from within or out, just that it's harder from out - and with the increasing introspectivism of the US and Russia - the Chinese must be laughing to the political global bank.

[andy-hughes]

DTCrosswordfan - //I presume, by that comment, you are dismissing other weighty tomes by 20th and 19th century historians and philosophers....there goes JS Mills in your book and many more) //

Then you presume incorrectly.

I have not 'dismissed' Dr. Kissinger's book, merely wondered about its relevance this far on, and I haven't mentioned the other books or individuals at all.

There is a tendency for a number of people on this site to see things that simply are not there in a post, and then argue as though they are - I am sure you are not going to join them on a regular basis.

[DTCwordfan]

how dismissive and insulting.

[andy-hughes]

DTC - If that observatiuon is aimed at me, I fail to see in any way that I have been either dismissive, or insulting.

It is you who is making unfounded assumptions on my opinion of a book I advised I have not read, and it is you who then assumed that I was being dismissive of other writers I had not mentioned at all.

I don't feel dismissed or insulted, even in the light of that response - so I fail to see why you do - ?

[Jackdaw33]

It's a good job we lost Calais all those years ago. Imagine what it would be like if it were still British territory today.