Society & Culture1 min ago
Would Cutting The Number Of Unskilled Migrants Coming To Britain, Boost The Economy?
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AOG....it was said last week, that one of the main causes of Britains better economy, was due to immigrants coming over here to work, and pay taxes.
Anyway, this sort of thing has been debated on here ad nauseam. Without skilled and unskilled labour, lots of British commerce would grind to a halt. I am just about to go to Cornwall for my Easter break, and farmers that I am acquainted with down there would have gone out of business years ago if they had to rely on local workers. One farmer I know quite well, goes to stay in a Warsaw hotel for a long weekend every Autumn, to recruit staff for the following season, because the local Job Centre in Penzance are unable to provide him with any more than a handful of people. He is pleased to see Poles that have worked for him before and they bring friends and relatives along, which he is glad to employ, as they have been so reliable in the past. The daffodils and potatoes would be rotting in the ground without our friends from Europe to harvest them.
We have two large meat packing plants near me, and the workforce is predominantly Polish. Without them we would starve, or at best, be forced into vegetarianism.
We might be able to survive without daffs, potatoes and lamb chops, but dirty Hospitals are quite another matter.
I have spent a good deal of time these last 2 years, in and out of various Hospitals, with my brothers serious head injury. Our NHS would cease to function without immigrants, especially in the more unskilled areas like cleaners.
If we could persuade enough of our "sick" and unemployed citizens to work instead of spending years sitting around watching daytime telly, we wouldn't need these foreign workers. But successive Governments of both political hues haven't been terribly successful in solving this problem, although this present lot have tried and are beginning to make some headway, as I will quite happily acknowledge.
Anyway, this sort of thing has been debated on here ad nauseam. Without skilled and unskilled labour, lots of British commerce would grind to a halt. I am just about to go to Cornwall for my Easter break, and farmers that I am acquainted with down there would have gone out of business years ago if they had to rely on local workers. One farmer I know quite well, goes to stay in a Warsaw hotel for a long weekend every Autumn, to recruit staff for the following season, because the local Job Centre in Penzance are unable to provide him with any more than a handful of people. He is pleased to see Poles that have worked for him before and they bring friends and relatives along, which he is glad to employ, as they have been so reliable in the past. The daffodils and potatoes would be rotting in the ground without our friends from Europe to harvest them.
We have two large meat packing plants near me, and the workforce is predominantly Polish. Without them we would starve, or at best, be forced into vegetarianism.
We might be able to survive without daffs, potatoes and lamb chops, but dirty Hospitals are quite another matter.
I have spent a good deal of time these last 2 years, in and out of various Hospitals, with my brothers serious head injury. Our NHS would cease to function without immigrants, especially in the more unskilled areas like cleaners.
If we could persuade enough of our "sick" and unemployed citizens to work instead of spending years sitting around watching daytime telly, we wouldn't need these foreign workers. But successive Governments of both political hues haven't been terribly successful in solving this problem, although this present lot have tried and are beginning to make some headway, as I will quite happily acknowledge.
The problem is that our benefits system is so generous that our own WSS won't do the low paid jobs because they get more sat on their arris. So in order to get the afore mentioned layabouts of their afore mentioned back sides we need to stop giving them free money, then they they will be more inclined to do these unskilled jobs. So to answer your question, yes but only if we also cut benefits too.
Your analysis is interesting, Mikey. I really don’t know how the nation coped before mass immigration from the EU took place and we suddenly had people to dig up spuds and cut daffodils. But it seems that we did. Despite falling by about a third since 2010, Cornwall still has more than 16,000 people unemployed. So why is your farmer friend heading off to Poland to recruit his staff? Plain and simple: many of those 16,000 would obviously prefer to draw benefits than to work for a living.
Despite what is said it is hard to imagine how a low skilled, low paid worker can be a net contributor to the nation’s coffers. A worker earning the minimum wage and working 40 hours per week has a gross income of around £13,500 on which he will pay around £1,250 income tax and NI. Even if he has no children he will almost certainly qualify for housing benefit, he may qualify for working tax credit and if he has a child or two at “home” child benefit, child tax credits and increased working tax credits will completely wipe out his tax and NI contributions (and some) anyway. This, of course, is before the costs of free medical treatment comes into play.
There is no doubt that it costs the country money to sustain many of the people who earn low pay. However, as OG has said, unless the 2m or so souls who are currently unemployed can be persuaded to take these jobs the industries with such vacancies will struggle. It must be better to get somebody off their backsides and get them earning £10k or £12k a year than to pay them their entire subsistence. Until some of the 16,000 Cornishmen are persuaded to do so the UK will have to continue importing cheap labour with all the consequential costs that entails.
Despite what is said it is hard to imagine how a low skilled, low paid worker can be a net contributor to the nation’s coffers. A worker earning the minimum wage and working 40 hours per week has a gross income of around £13,500 on which he will pay around £1,250 income tax and NI. Even if he has no children he will almost certainly qualify for housing benefit, he may qualify for working tax credit and if he has a child or two at “home” child benefit, child tax credits and increased working tax credits will completely wipe out his tax and NI contributions (and some) anyway. This, of course, is before the costs of free medical treatment comes into play.
There is no doubt that it costs the country money to sustain many of the people who earn low pay. However, as OG has said, unless the 2m or so souls who are currently unemployed can be persuaded to take these jobs the industries with such vacancies will struggle. It must be better to get somebody off their backsides and get them earning £10k or £12k a year than to pay them their entire subsistence. Until some of the 16,000 Cornishmen are persuaded to do so the UK will have to continue importing cheap labour with all the consequential costs that entails.
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I agree NJ ! Especially the bit after the colon in your first paragraph !
I think its time we got tough with our long-term unemployed. I know there are huge difficulties in changing people social habits, but it has to be done. I am surrounded on the housing estate where I live here in Swansea by mostly idle men and women of working age, many of which haven't worked in years. Occasionally I see a white Transit van come along early in the morning and pick a couple up but that doesn't happen very often. They all smoke, which irritates me as I am paying for their ruddy "fags" (hate that word)
Makes me MAD !
I think its time we got tough with our long-term unemployed. I know there are huge difficulties in changing people social habits, but it has to be done. I am surrounded on the housing estate where I live here in Swansea by mostly idle men and women of working age, many of which haven't worked in years. Occasionally I see a white Transit van come along early in the morning and pick a couple up but that doesn't happen very often. They all smoke, which irritates me as I am paying for their ruddy "fags" (hate that word)
Makes me MAD !
AOG
No, it would not be a boost to the economy.
It would lead to wage inflation, which in turn would lead to an increase in the RPI.
Once that cycle began, inflation would once again become a feature of the British economy.
Right now, labour is cheap.
Once the cost of labour rises, everything else rises. Someone will have to pay for increased wages, and that will be the consumer. And once consumers start paying higher prices, they will inevitably start demanding higher wages to keep up with the cost of living.
These proposals by UKIP might on the face of it look sensible, but they need to understand how macro economics work.
I am not convinced that UKIP have a solid understanding of the economy.
No, it would not be a boost to the economy.
It would lead to wage inflation, which in turn would lead to an increase in the RPI.
Once that cycle began, inflation would once again become a feature of the British economy.
Right now, labour is cheap.
Once the cost of labour rises, everything else rises. Someone will have to pay for increased wages, and that will be the consumer. And once consumers start paying higher prices, they will inevitably start demanding higher wages to keep up with the cost of living.
These proposals by UKIP might on the face of it look sensible, but they need to understand how macro economics work.
I am not convinced that UKIP have a solid understanding of the economy.
mikey4444
Errr, whilst I agree with the points you raise, I have to call you on this:
We have two large meat packing plants near me, and the workforce is predominantly Polish. Without them we would starve, or at best, be forced into vegetarianism.
This may be the first time you've ever been called a drama queen'
Errr, whilst I agree with the points you raise, I have to call you on this:
We have two large meat packing plants near me, and the workforce is predominantly Polish. Without them we would starve, or at best, be forced into vegetarianism.
This may be the first time you've ever been called a drama queen'
God forbid TTT ! But this is not a Party political issue. Everybody should be keen for our long-term unemployed to start working again. If there weren't loads of jobs vacancies, a lot of the immigrants wouldn't be here in the first place.
In the 90's, my brother went to work in Germany, as a Brickie, because there wasn't any work here. But as soon as the building industry picked up again, he was back here like a shot !
In the 90's, my brother went to work in Germany, as a Brickie, because there wasn't any work here. But as soon as the building industry picked up again, he was back here like a shot !
No.
Half of the long term unemployed are people over 50. They are not WSS, they want to work, but employers do not want them.
Employers would sooner employ a young 20 year old migrant worker than a someone 30+ years more senior. When we look at the jobs that migrants are taking, such as agricultural workers, a 50-60 year old would not be really suitable.
So no, cutting migant workers would make no difference.
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Half of the long term unemployed are people over 50. They are not WSS, they want to work, but employers do not want them.
Employers would sooner employ a young 20 year old migrant worker than a someone 30+ years more senior. When we look at the jobs that migrants are taking, such as agricultural workers, a 50-60 year old would not be really suitable.
So no, cutting migant workers would make no difference.
http://
mikey4444
/// One farmer I know quite well, goes to stay in a Warsaw hotel for a long weekend every Autumn, to recruit staff for the following season, ///
You should tell your farmer friend that it would be cheaper to hire a white van, that's the way to recruit your labour force.
Read these selection of links.
http://
http://
http://
http://
/// One farmer I know quite well, goes to stay in a Warsaw hotel for a long weekend every Autumn, to recruit staff for the following season, ///
You should tell your farmer friend that it would be cheaper to hire a white van, that's the way to recruit your labour force.
Read these selection of links.
http://
http://
http://
http://
I sincerely hope none of you intend to holiday in Cornwall ever again, if that's all you think they are worth!
Why not lead by example? Quit your job, do exactly what you suggest the unemployed do. Some of your underlings are probably itching for promotions.
No shortage of "comfortable where I am" bosses out there, either, with no intention of stretching themselves at the next highest rung on the ladder.
No shortage of people spending half their time pretending to be busy, in the workplace; surfing the internet when they think no-one is looking. (You're all retired, I guess, so you're off the hook).
Why not lead by example? Quit your job, do exactly what you suggest the unemployed do. Some of your underlings are probably itching for promotions.
No shortage of "comfortable where I am" bosses out there, either, with no intention of stretching themselves at the next highest rung on the ladder.
No shortage of people spending half their time pretending to be busy, in the workplace; surfing the internet when they think no-one is looking. (You're all retired, I guess, so you're off the hook).
AOG...he is not really a friend, more of an acquaintance. But I see no reason to doubt what he says. He has appeared in the local Press on many occasions, on this issue of not being able to get the Cornish, or enough of them, to do work.
Do you remember the BBC documentary about British verses immigrant workers in Norfolk a couple of years ago !
Its a fact of life AOG.....these people are here to work, because there are vacancies for them. Anyway, my original point earlier is true. Without immigrants we would struggle, of that there is no doubt whatsoever.
Do you remember the BBC documentary about British verses immigrant workers in Norfolk a couple of years ago !
Its a fact of life AOG.....these people are here to work, because there are vacancies for them. Anyway, my original point earlier is true. Without immigrants we would struggle, of that there is no doubt whatsoever.
sp1814
/// It would lead to wage inflation, which in turn would lead to an increase in the RPI. ///
/// Once that cycle began, inflation would once again become a feature of the British economy. ///
/// Right now, labour is cheap. ///
I would have thought you of all people would be against slave labour, would you like British workers to work for peanuts, because that is what your kind of thinking leads to.
Decreasing wages leads to a decrease in the standard of living, British workers should not be expected to earn the same as workers in Eastern European countries.
/// It would lead to wage inflation, which in turn would lead to an increase in the RPI. ///
/// Once that cycle began, inflation would once again become a feature of the British economy. ///
/// Right now, labour is cheap. ///
I would have thought you of all people would be against slave labour, would you like British workers to work for peanuts, because that is what your kind of thinking leads to.
Decreasing wages leads to a decrease in the standard of living, British workers should not be expected to earn the same as workers in Eastern European countries.
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