News3 mins ago
United States Assessment Of The Downing Of Flight Mh17 And Its Aftermath
The US Embassy in Kyiv (no doubt inter many alia) has issued this within the last minutes
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Answers
It's fairly obvious that Putin's stance has quite literally blown up in his face and his present silence can only mean that his advisors are working tirelessly on what sort of strategy to take and how they are going to play this one out. Either way, his continued reluctance to make any statement is damning and the weight of world opinion and condemnation must...
11:54 Sun 20th Jul 2014
The terrorists' call for a truce is outrageous.
The only thing stopping anyone accessing this site is the presence of gunmen, although I also do not understand why they don't just pitch up at site anyway. The world's press is there and following every move.
The Ukrainain Govt called a unilateral truce weeks ago which was ignored by the enemy. Repeated peace offers have been made to these people and they have all been rejected.
And now they are using their own crime as a bargaining tool in the wider war.
"Beneath contempt" does not do it justice.
The only thing stopping anyone accessing this site is the presence of gunmen, although I also do not understand why they don't just pitch up at site anyway. The world's press is there and following every move.
The Ukrainain Govt called a unilateral truce weeks ago which was ignored by the enemy. Repeated peace offers have been made to these people and they have all been rejected.
And now they are using their own crime as a bargaining tool in the wider war.
"Beneath contempt" does not do it justice.
A very misleading assessment which conveniently leaves out evidence that doesn't fit.
// Ukraine also operates SA-11 systems, but we are confident no Ukrainian air defense systems were within range of the crash. //
After it became evident that the plane was a civilian airliner, separatists deleted social media posts... about possessing a Buk (SA-11) SAM system. //
The rebels captured a BUK launcher from the Ukrainians on the 29th June and boasted about possessing it on Twitter then. The way the 'assessment' is written makes the Rebel Tweets about about possessing a BUK were written after the delivery of a Russian BUK, but the boasting Tweets were actually written 3 weeks before (when they won one in combat).
The US 'assessment' neither admits the Ukrainians had lost a launcher to the Rebels or that it was likely to be in that area. Such an omission is on purpose, because if there were two launchers, we cannot be sure it was the Russian one which made the fatal error. Simpler to just ignore the existence of another launcher so that it is easier to condemn Russia.
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// Ukraine also operates SA-11 systems, but we are confident no Ukrainian air defense systems were within range of the crash. //
After it became evident that the plane was a civilian airliner, separatists deleted social media posts... about possessing a Buk (SA-11) SAM system. //
The rebels captured a BUK launcher from the Ukrainians on the 29th June and boasted about possessing it on Twitter then. The way the 'assessment' is written makes the Rebel Tweets about about possessing a BUK were written after the delivery of a Russian BUK, but the boasting Tweets were actually written 3 weeks before (when they won one in combat).
The US 'assessment' neither admits the Ukrainians had lost a launcher to the Rebels or that it was likely to be in that area. Such an omission is on purpose, because if there were two launchers, we cannot be sure it was the Russian one which made the fatal error. Simpler to just ignore the existence of another launcher so that it is easier to condemn Russia.
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What everyone seems to be ignoring (I mean the press mainly) is the significance of the fact that in the midst of all the gun-waving, allegations (doubtless true) of looting etc, Ukrainian Emergency Services Ministry personnel have been all along working to retrieve bodies.
These are presumably part-time response units who work in other jobs, probably mining and farming, and they are all wearing their "MNS Ukraini" coats. It may be that the rebels are too stupid, or too drunk, to notice :-)
What is happening to the bodies as they are collected is not clear. Some have gone to Donetsk, under terrorist control. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to "charge" relatives for removing them.
A friend of ours had to go back to Donetsk the other week to bury her mother and had to bribe the local gangsters before the funeral could go ahead.
These are presumably part-time response units who work in other jobs, probably mining and farming, and they are all wearing their "MNS Ukraini" coats. It may be that the rebels are too stupid, or too drunk, to notice :-)
What is happening to the bodies as they are collected is not clear. Some have gone to Donetsk, under terrorist control. It wouldn't surprise me if they tried to "charge" relatives for removing them.
A friend of ours had to go back to Donetsk the other week to bury her mother and had to bribe the local gangsters before the funeral could go ahead.
This is a post on LiveLeaks from the DNR on 29th June. It was posted by the DNR (note the language, the Buk air defense system has been captured by opponents of the unconstitutional junta government).
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I'd counter that with this Gromit:
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Gromit,
I don't understand.
What "evidence that doesn't fit" are they leaving out? That the missile fired might have been stolen from the Ukrainbe military. That might make it slightly less damning, but not a lot.
The fact remains that they fired an Sa-11 and hit a civil airliner. And that they were planning to use Sa-11s delivered from Russia, only one of massive consignment of men and arms that has been coming from Russia on the past weeks.
It is also clear that the Russian military, presumably on the orders of the Kremlin, is training mercenaries to fight alongside their own forces.
Putin is trying to pull the trick Russia used in Moldova and especially Georgia namely destabilise and divide a country by exploiting the ethnic differences therein. The Ukraine though he has two problems with that: firstly Ukraine doesn't actually have suitable ethnic minorities as such (other than Crimea which was dealt with differently). And also,, Ukraine is a huge country with millions of diaspora all over the world and it is a lot harder for him to do his dirty work without being exposed. Social medial as we have seen adds to the "problem".
And now this has happened, which illustrates the reckless evil of his policy.
I don't understand.
What "evidence that doesn't fit" are they leaving out? That the missile fired might have been stolen from the Ukrainbe military. That might make it slightly less damning, but not a lot.
The fact remains that they fired an Sa-11 and hit a civil airliner. And that they were planning to use Sa-11s delivered from Russia, only one of massive consignment of men and arms that has been coming from Russia on the past weeks.
It is also clear that the Russian military, presumably on the orders of the Kremlin, is training mercenaries to fight alongside their own forces.
Putin is trying to pull the trick Russia used in Moldova and especially Georgia namely destabilise and divide a country by exploiting the ethnic differences therein. The Ukraine though he has two problems with that: firstly Ukraine doesn't actually have suitable ethnic minorities as such (other than Crimea which was dealt with differently). And also,, Ukraine is a huge country with millions of diaspora all over the world and it is a lot harder for him to do his dirty work without being exposed. Social medial as we have seen adds to the "problem".
And now this has happened, which illustrates the reckless evil of his policy.
> Indeed so. And I don't understand really what the delay is. <
just waiting for the ukraine to AGREE
No, with respect that is not the reason. Ukraine does not need to call a truce for access to be granted to the crash site. That is entirely down to the whim of the characters with guns you see on the news. What I don't understand, just to repeat myself, is why they allow themselves to be deterred. I fear the reason may be that they are afraid they will be attacked. As I said before the last unilateral ceasefire was ignored.
just waiting for the ukraine to AGREE
No, with respect that is not the reason. Ukraine does not need to call a truce for access to be granted to the crash site. That is entirely down to the whim of the characters with guns you see on the news. What I don't understand, just to repeat myself, is why they allow themselves to be deterred. I fear the reason may be that they are afraid they will be attacked. As I said before the last unilateral ceasefire was ignored.
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