ChatterBank0 min ago
"fitted Up"
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the cabinet papers from the time of the miner's strike are due to be released tomorrow. are there likely to be any surprises? or just confirmation of what was suspected at the time, and since?
the cabinet papers from the time of the miner's strike are due to be released tomorrow. are there likely to be any surprises? or just confirmation of what was suspected at the time, and since?
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They didn't have to fit anyone up. The miners where committing crimes on prime time TV. Perhaps the family of this guy would have something to say:
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It s extremely unlikely that any new evidence or revelation will rewrite the natative of the Miners Strike. The Government knew it had to close many pits and that would result in a National Miners Strike. So they prepared themselves. They imported stockpiles of coal from abroad, enough to last a year. They passed new laws and they hired an hatchet man from the US to oversee the close down. In many communities it became a battle between the workers and the state. And the police became the foot soldiers of the state which has tarnished them ever since. In such a climate, injustices were undoubted committed. Some were narrowly averted as reported in that link...
// During the first trial of 15 picketers she was able to dismantle the police evidence by proving to the court that two officers had lied under oath about an incident they could not possibly have witnessed. She demonstrated they had also lied over a forged signature on one of the officer's statements.
Other barristers went on to produce evidence which also undermined police witnesses and the prosecution gave up the case. All 93 men were acquitted.
No officers were prosecuted or disciplined as a result of the Orgreave trial. //
I am not expected any surprises when the Cabinet paper are revealed.
// During the first trial of 15 picketers she was able to dismantle the police evidence by proving to the court that two officers had lied under oath about an incident they could not possibly have witnessed. She demonstrated they had also lied over a forged signature on one of the officer's statements.
Other barristers went on to produce evidence which also undermined police witnesses and the prosecution gave up the case. All 93 men were acquitted.
No officers were prosecuted or disciplined as a result of the Orgreave trial. //
I am not expected any surprises when the Cabinet paper are revealed.
//No-one (not even the demonised Scargill) approved of that action //
arthur scargill could not be seen to condone the killing - he was a shrewd cookie and knew the public relations damage that could be done by not condemning it. but the ordinary miners' attitude was "tough sh1t" - the feeling was, here was a man living and working in a mining area driving scabs to work.
arthur scargill could not be seen to condone the killing - he was a shrewd cookie and knew the public relations damage that could be done by not condemning it. but the ordinary miners' attitude was "tough sh1t" - the feeling was, here was a man living and working in a mining area driving scabs to work.
I hate all this raking up over old coals. What is done is over. It was a nasty time the mines were not all productive, in fact some of them were costing money to keep open. The Unions did everything to cause disruption bussing in rent-a-mob crowds to make trouble. Scargill was useless. In the scheme of things both sides committed wrongs. No sense in going over it all again.
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I'm from a mining background in South Wales, clearly remember my policeman dad (divorced from my mother) who had visited, bragging in front of my miner grandad about the money he was making - whilst wearing a tie that said 'Authur Scargill paid my mortgage'. Also remember, amongst other things, the state of car of a 'scab' in the police compound. Horrible time although I was only a teenager so probably didn't take in half of what was happening.
It will be interested to see what it says about Mr Scargill and how much he had to answer for. I expect there to be some revelations.
There were dreadful but perhaps avoidable events. It was a total mess at the time.
It is still a very emotive subject with some (apparent around the time of Mrs Thatcher's funeral). From time to time I do talk to sons/daughters of miners and they (the family) felt let down by Scargill. Some families are still not speaking over this strike.
It was a huge experience for anyone negatively affected including the family Tora mentions. I interviewed some Union officials in Rotherham at the time
(it was part of my job) with a view to finding ways to financially assist through industry initiatives. It was very challenging and nobody wanted to do it! it wasn't easy to get through with new ideas but we did in the end. Change was scary.
There were dreadful but perhaps avoidable events. It was a total mess at the time.
It is still a very emotive subject with some (apparent around the time of Mrs Thatcher's funeral). From time to time I do talk to sons/daughters of miners and they (the family) felt let down by Scargill. Some families are still not speaking over this strike.
It was a huge experience for anyone negatively affected including the family Tora mentions. I interviewed some Union officials in Rotherham at the time
(it was part of my job) with a view to finding ways to financially assist through industry initiatives. It was very challenging and nobody wanted to do it! it wasn't easy to get through with new ideas but we did in the end. Change was scary.
It appears that Scargill may have been right all along, when he said that there was a secret list of pit closures :::
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The NUM continually made this claim but the Tory government always denied it. It would seem that it sometimes takes 30 years for the truth to come out.
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The NUM continually made this claim but the Tory government always denied it. It would seem that it sometimes takes 30 years for the truth to come out.
//Should we ignore new facts than[sic] ?//
Are they new ‘facts’?
Retired West Yorkshire police officer Cedric Christie says "It's hard enough to investigate things that happened last week or last year, but 30 years - it's just too long. I know the sentiments behind it are very important but are we able ever to find out exactly what happened in each arrest? We'll never achieve that."
He’s right.
As for a secret list, I’ve just posted this on the other thread in Chatterbank.
//From the beginning of the 20th century, the coal industry was in decline. This process intensified in the years following World War I, and again after World War II. In the two decades from 1950-1970 around a hundred North East coal mines were closed.[9] A common misconception is that Newcastle upon Tyne, and its suburbs was one of the areas affected most by the infamous mid-eighties strike. However, in reality, the vast majority of mines in that area were long since defunct by that time. In March 1968, the last pit in the Black Country closed and pit closures were a regular occurrence in many other areas.//
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Are they new ‘facts’?
Retired West Yorkshire police officer Cedric Christie says "It's hard enough to investigate things that happened last week or last year, but 30 years - it's just too long. I know the sentiments behind it are very important but are we able ever to find out exactly what happened in each arrest? We'll never achieve that."
He’s right.
As for a secret list, I’ve just posted this on the other thread in Chatterbank.
//From the beginning of the 20th century, the coal industry was in decline. This process intensified in the years following World War I, and again after World War II. In the two decades from 1950-1970 around a hundred North East coal mines were closed.[9] A common misconception is that Newcastle upon Tyne, and its suburbs was one of the areas affected most by the infamous mid-eighties strike. However, in reality, the vast majority of mines in that area were long since defunct by that time. In March 1968, the last pit in the Black Country closed and pit closures were a regular occurrence in many other areas.//
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It's not a lightbulb, "arthur was right" fact that pits needed to close, it was obvious to all but blind socialist idiots that the UK coal industry needed reforming. The miners allied themselves to a swivle eyed communist who wanted to take on the goverment but he was so inept that the goverment ran rings around him. Let's give the government 6 months to stock pile and then go on strike in May! Genius! No doubt the miners had many sincere people among them but they should not be hating MrsT, Scargill led them over a cliff.
As the stepson of a miner of 37 years and great grandson of a miner who died in the Gresford Disaster (266 men and boys killed) I am yet to hear anyone from the NCB/NUM or mining industry prove to me that coal mining in the 70's & 80's was a profitable industry.
Power cuts and the 3 day week ruined this country and the cost was felt a decade later.
My stepdad never agreed with the strike, he knew the bigger pits would never have come out in sympathy when the smaller one's were being closed, but they had to when the roles were reversed.
Scargill did just as much damage as Mrs T supposedly did and he still continues to milk the NUM now.
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Power cuts and the 3 day week ruined this country and the cost was felt a decade later.
My stepdad never agreed with the strike, he knew the bigger pits would never have come out in sympathy when the smaller one's were being closed, but they had to when the roles were reversed.
Scargill did just as much damage as Mrs T supposedly did and he still continues to milk the NUM now.
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