Is it OK for only the secret services to disobey the law

[pdq1]

Our government keeps insisting that we must abide by the court of law but behind their backs we are told the secret services have been involved in torture and now secret renditions. Do you have the feeling we are operating in parallel universes? It now turns out that maybe Jack Straw was instrumental in agreeing to rendition. So instead of pussyfooting about our whiter than white image should we come out and admit our failings?

[DTCwordfan]

And just as we own large swathes of foreign companies too, Gromit.

Typical left wing rhetoric about protectionalism through nationalism of industry.

[jno]

they may be at war with us, NJ, but are we at war with them? I recall Thatcher being very careful not to go to war over the Falklands, for instance.

[DTCwordfan]

BP, British Gas, Shell (50%), Tescos, Sainsbury, M&S, Burberry, various UK Banks, to name but a few......

[Gromit]

New Judge

So let me get this right. The handing over to torturers was OK because we were at war with those who opposed Gadaffi in Libya?

[Gromit]

DTCrosswordfan

I do believe our energy security should be in our own hands and not German French and Spanish companies. Sorry for being an old fashioned lefty.

[anotheoldgit]

/// The case in question involves a Libyan Oppostion leader being captured by the CIA and handed to Gadaffi's henchmen. This was only possible with the help of the UK. He was then tortured. This was illegal under UK law. No different rules apply.///

Yes but the UK did not do the torturing, so how were they breaking the law.

I suppose we will also be guilty of breaking the law if Abu Qatada is in deed tortured when he is finally sent to Jordan?

[naomi24]

Some here ought to be rather please that the Secret Services don’t obey the law to the letter. When there are people out there who are not playing by the Marquess of Queensberry Rules, and who would happily see this country and its people destroyed, it’s ridiculous to suggest that those working to protect our national security should. I agree with Dave and New Judge.

[Gromit]

AOG

// How were they (the UK) Breaking the law? //

Because if his allegations are correct, we were complicit in his torture, which is against the law.

// He says the US Central Intelligence Agency was responsible for taking him back to his homeland to face torture, but claims they acted on a tip off from Britain.
He also claims the US agents were allowed to refuel their plane on the British island of Diego Garcia, in the Indian Ocean. //

[Gromit]

// Last year, Mr Belhadj (the man who was tortured) became one of the rebels who helped topple Colonel Muammar Gaddafi’s murderous Libyan regime with the assistance of British military forces.
Documents discovered in Tripoli after the civil war revealed details of co-operation between the American, British and Libyan intelligence services. //

http://www.telegraph....n-torture-victim.html

[Gromit]

// ...it’s ridiculous to suggest that those working to protect our national security should (work within the law). // - Naomi

It is ridiculous to torture a man working on the overthrow of Gadaffi. And even more ridiculous to suggest that that makes us all safer.

[DTCwordfan]

And therefore you have objection to BP and Shell having considerable percentages of most European countries when it comes to refineries and marketing and the two companies being major energy players in European Exploration and Production, not only for oil but their ventures into Natural Gas.

What is good for the goose is bad for the gander or vica versa, Gromit. Next you will want them nationalising and bring back the days of inefficiency - a bit like the Civil Service in all its manifestations and the wonderful antics of centralised procurement......

[Gromit]

Yes, the British Government selling its entire holding in BP between 1979 and 1987 is on par with Brown selling the Gold. Both decisions put party politics ahead of the good of the country.

[emmie]

wasn't Gaddafi considered a friend and ally at the time, perhaps not by all, a number of politicians at the time were pally, lots of photo's of Blair embracing him, so is it a case of if you help them, they in turn help you. What was it Britain got out of the deal, presumably something otherwise why would our politicians comply.
And it is a dirty war make no mistake, so you cannot as Naomi rightly
pointed out, always play by the rules, Marquess of Queensberry or not.

[pdq1]

When you hear that France gets rid of its unwanted desirables whereas in Britain we pay by the Queensbury Rules (in public anyway) and can't deport the likes of Qatada because of laws yet in the background we are an accessory to torture and rendition and just acting like hypocrites. We disobey laws like the rest of them.