Definitely A Change In The Climate
News1 min ago
One Week Out Of Prison...
one week out of prison . served 1 year 2 months of 2 years 4 months..for good behaviour...tagged but missed curfew ....found drunk and attempted burlary ... Am I right in thinking this person will go back to prison to serve the rest of his original sentence plus this second offence.?
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I'd like to see more first offenders sent to prison for a short period as well as community service on their release. A short, sharp shock might be effective - the first night in prison is the scariest and the sentence must be short enough to prevent them getting acclimatised to the experience.
A week of solitary may focus the mind.
A week of solitary may focus the mind.
// 75% of all those sent to prison even for a very short sentence never work again! //
as a landlord who had been burnt by 16 y olds with babies ( dont pay the rent - spend it on the kid etc ) I tried a schizophrenic ex con .... it was interesting. At least I understood where he was coming from ( pun intended )
two actually - they are both back inside ( owing me rent )
as a landlord who had been burnt by 16 y olds with babies ( dont pay the rent - spend it on the kid etc ) I tried a schizophrenic ex con .... it was interesting. At least I understood where he was coming from ( pun intended )
two actually - they are both back inside ( owing me rent )
Yes you need to be a little careful when taking statistics at face value.
Eddie’s 75% may well be correct (I haven’t checked). But, as has been mentioned, it should also be considered whether those in that 75% ever worked before they went inside. Also to be borne in mind is that, in the UK at least, one has to have committed either a single serious offence or quite a large number of less serious offences. Those going to prison in the latter category will almost certainly have already have been through the full graduation process of Conditional Discharges, Fines, Community Orders and Suspended Prison Sentences. The last two of these are almost always accompanied by considerable intervention and support from the probation service (with which I believe Eddie is familiar).
So to suggest that “prison doesn’t work” is a bit simplistic. It certainly works in that it affords the rest of us a brief respite from the activities of those incarcerated. It does not often work to rehabilitate a sizeable number of those sentenced to custody. But along with this statement has also to be asked the question “But would anything do so?” The probable answer is “No”. Large numbers of people sent to prison have shown themselves to be unresponsive to other non-custodial disposals and it could be argued that they are simply inclined to commit criminal offences whatever assistance they might be given to make them lead a non-criminal life. If they are not so inclined they will rehabilitate themselves as the people Mr Timpson employs illustrate.
When I was young (before the introduction of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act) it was well known that a criminal record was likely to have an influence on your life for a very long time. In some respects it would affect you for life. It was a very powerful deterrent from committing criminal acts. The ROA sees offences “spent” – sometimes in a ludicrously short time and so that deterrent is no longer with us. I would argue that, certainly as far as deterring people from committing crimes, the ROA has actually increased the chances, particularly among young people, of criminality.
It is quite clear that the individual referred to in this question has not been influenced at all by a spell inside. He has benefitted from the outrageous rule that sees all prisoners serving only half of their sentences (and this is not dependent on “good behaviour”) but still reoffends within a very short time of leaving prison. When considering whether or not “prison works” the first question to be asked is who is it supposed to be working for – the offender or the rest of us? In this case I think “the rest of us” should take precedence.
Eddie’s 75% may well be correct (I haven’t checked). But, as has been mentioned, it should also be considered whether those in that 75% ever worked before they went inside. Also to be borne in mind is that, in the UK at least, one has to have committed either a single serious offence or quite a large number of less serious offences. Those going to prison in the latter category will almost certainly have already have been through the full graduation process of Conditional Discharges, Fines, Community Orders and Suspended Prison Sentences. The last two of these are almost always accompanied by considerable intervention and support from the probation service (with which I believe Eddie is familiar).
So to suggest that “prison doesn’t work” is a bit simplistic. It certainly works in that it affords the rest of us a brief respite from the activities of those incarcerated. It does not often work to rehabilitate a sizeable number of those sentenced to custody. But along with this statement has also to be asked the question “But would anything do so?” The probable answer is “No”. Large numbers of people sent to prison have shown themselves to be unresponsive to other non-custodial disposals and it could be argued that they are simply inclined to commit criminal offences whatever assistance they might be given to make them lead a non-criminal life. If they are not so inclined they will rehabilitate themselves as the people Mr Timpson employs illustrate.
When I was young (before the introduction of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act) it was well known that a criminal record was likely to have an influence on your life for a very long time. In some respects it would affect you for life. It was a very powerful deterrent from committing criminal acts. The ROA sees offences “spent” – sometimes in a ludicrously short time and so that deterrent is no longer with us. I would argue that, certainly as far as deterring people from committing crimes, the ROA has actually increased the chances, particularly among young people, of criminality.
It is quite clear that the individual referred to in this question has not been influenced at all by a spell inside. He has benefitted from the outrageous rule that sees all prisoners serving only half of their sentences (and this is not dependent on “good behaviour”) but still reoffends within a very short time of leaving prison. When considering whether or not “prison works” the first question to be asked is who is it supposed to be working for – the offender or the rest of us? In this case I think “the rest of us” should take precedence.
No that’s not quite my argument, Peter.
My argument is that prison certainly (and indisputably) works by preventing miscreants from continuing their activities. It also works in >99% of cases in that it provides punishment (there are a very few people who prefer life inside to being at liberty). Where it doesn’t seem to work very well, if at all, is in providing rehabilitation.
My argument is that in many cases virtually nothing will provide rehabilitation. For solutions to work the offender has to be co-operative and receptive. Most that I have come into contact with simply have no wish to be rehabilitated. They are criminals, they adopt a criminal lifestyle and thus will remain criminals. It’s “what they do”.
To simply say, therefore, that “xx% of prisoners never work after being released” or “yy% of prisoners reoffend after being released from custody” is not very helpful. You need to know why that is. In the meantime we might as well take advantage of the other two benefits that prison has to offer – punishment and the prevention of crime.
My argument is that prison certainly (and indisputably) works by preventing miscreants from continuing their activities. It also works in >99% of cases in that it provides punishment (there are a very few people who prefer life inside to being at liberty). Where it doesn’t seem to work very well, if at all, is in providing rehabilitation.
My argument is that in many cases virtually nothing will provide rehabilitation. For solutions to work the offender has to be co-operative and receptive. Most that I have come into contact with simply have no wish to be rehabilitated. They are criminals, they adopt a criminal lifestyle and thus will remain criminals. It’s “what they do”.
To simply say, therefore, that “xx% of prisoners never work after being released” or “yy% of prisoners reoffend after being released from custody” is not very helpful. You need to know why that is. In the meantime we might as well take advantage of the other two benefits that prison has to offer – punishment and the prevention of crime.
NJ I see your view that there are 'very few people who prefer life inside'
However my experience points to a different perspective. As I have said several times on here I once worked inside a prison in the education department. I met a lot of people who preferred to be in prison rather than 'on the out'. If you have virtually no hope of a decent job or a home of your own a heated cell with 3 fresh cooked meals a day plus free clothing . laundry and medical care is not too bad.
Then again there were the 'career criminals' who regard prison as part of the job and rate different 'nicks' the way international business men discuss hotels.
Of course my view was biased but I do think that for a significant minority prison is 'home'.
I also encountered more than one person who wanted his sentence increased so that he had time to complete his education program .
However my experience points to a different perspective. As I have said several times on here I once worked inside a prison in the education department. I met a lot of people who preferred to be in prison rather than 'on the out'. If you have virtually no hope of a decent job or a home of your own a heated cell with 3 fresh cooked meals a day plus free clothing . laundry and medical care is not too bad.
Then again there were the 'career criminals' who regard prison as part of the job and rate different 'nicks' the way international business men discuss hotels.
Of course my view was biased but I do think that for a significant minority prison is 'home'.
I also encountered more than one person who wanted his sentence increased so that he had time to complete his education program .
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