NHS Open Door Policy

[trolly61]

Hi my 25 year old daughter passed away recently after being given bad news by a Junior nurse, she suffered a cardiac arrest. I requested a meeting with the hospital staff and have been granted one hour tomorrow. I also requested to speak with the nurse who was with my daughter, but have been told its not appropriate for her to be there with myself and the consultants as she is Junior Staff. Im angry about this as she would be the one to tell me exactly what happened. I feel they are trying to cover something up. Does anyone know if I can insist on speaking to her under the new NHS Open door policy? Thanks

[factor-fiction]

Hi- I'm sorry about your loss.
I find it hard to see what could be being 'covered up' here. Perhaps you should go to the initial meeting, hear what they have to say, and then take things from there.

[anneasquith]

im sorry re your daughter, you have the right to view your daughters case notes,

[NoMercy]

If the Junior Nurse was experience enough to give bad news to a patient, she is capable of explaining to you what happened.

I would threaten legal action.

[Jemisa]

Do you think this nurse was responsible for your daughters death then? Very hard to prove.
I was in the Cardiac Care Unit of my local hospital recently and found the nurses are told to answer Qs truthfully good or bad news. I'm sure she was doing what she was trained to do.
Sorry about your loss.

jem

[trolly61]

@Jemisa She went into my daughters room and gave her bad news very late at night. My daughter had a severe panic attack and said she thought she needed oxygen. The nurse went out of the room to get a mask(shouldnt there be a mask in the room as its a heart/lung hospital?) so she left my daughter alone when she was clearly having breathing difficulties and I now know, a cardiac arrythmia. I have been told three different time scales as to how long she was left alone. When the nurse went back in she found her on the floor having suffered a cardiac arrest. While I dont blame the nurse at all, I think its very bad that she was told the news in the first place, alone in a hospital room late at night. The news was about another patient who my daughter was close to. I just dont think she should have been told this without someone there like myself to support her. I really wanted to speak to the nurse as she was the last person who talked to my daughter. She has been interviewed but its not the same as talking to her.

[factor-fiction]

I hope I don't sound unsympathetic but i'm not sure what the reasons are for speaking to the nurse.
I still think the first step is to attend the agreed meeting, listen to them, put over your concerns and take it from there. For all you know there may be disciplinary investigation being considered against the nurse and the senior staff want to hear your story to help them investigate.
If you don't get the answers you want then you can escalate the issue and maybe see a solicitor

[anneasquith]

write down your questions you wish to ask in advance, good luck

[China Doll]

I think it would be pretty standard to see the consults in overall charge of the patients care and not a junior nurse (what do you mean by that? A student nurse?). Also, as factor has said, there could well be an internal investigation happening which would mean that while that is happening then meeting with you would be inappropriate.

I would wait and see how the meeting pans out. I also think the suggestion of writing down what you want to ask is a good one.

[joko]

Maybe the nurse has refused to speak to you? maybe she feels you will shout at her and blame her for it and doesnt want to hear it?

whatever the nurses actions, she did not kill your daughter - she did not make her have a cardiac arrest, and maybe angry and upset that she is being questioned about it.

The fact that there was no oxygen mask in the room could have been for many reasons, this nurse may have only just come on duty and can't be blamed for there not being one there...also as she is a junior nurse perhaps its not down to her to ensure there is one in every room...?
And regarding leaving her alone .... what did you want her to do? Stay with your daughter with no mask and thus no oxygen and just watch her suffer ...or go and get a mask...?

also i'm not sure that she would go into a room, wake your daughter just to tell her that... why would she?
but if on a routine check, your daughter asked her how the other person was, or maybe even if she could go and see her... what was she to do...lie? perhaps the nurse thought itd be ok because it cant have been that unexpected given that the person was in hospital and very ill...

i dont blame you being angry and upset - i'd be the same...and i feel for you... but i know you say you dont blame the nurse, but it sounds really like you do, an want to interrogate her ...but try not to see blame when there may not be any and its just a very sad and unfortunate accident.

if they really wont let you meet her, maybe you could ask if you can speak on the phone?
or write her a letter - and ask politely for her account of events and to answer any questions thoroughly... that way she wont feel under attack and may want to help

[trolly61]

@ joko, no Im not blaming her but I think the policy should be changed. No she shouldnt have left her at all! She shouldve called someone else to bring a mask.

[factor-fiction]

Well I think there is more chance of policy issues being discussed and getting policies changed if you speak to the senior staff rater than the nurse. I'm still not sure what can be gained from interviewing/cross examining the nurse at this stage.
And if you are , as you say, (understandably) feeling angry, I can see why the hospital wouldn't want the nurse there at this stage

[joko]

how? nurses dont have walkie talkies... she would have to have left the room anyway to get someone else to get it...

she may have only been gone for a few seconds...

if she had enough oxygen to breathe enough to actually ask for oxygen, perhaps the nurse thought a few seconds wont make any difference... she cant have known her shortness of breath was down to imminent cardiac arrest, she would have assumed it was just that she was upset.

when your daughter asked for oxygen, should the nurse have refused, saying 'im not leaving you' ... who would that have helped?

i cant see what difference her staying in the room would have made... she could not have stopped it happening ...

[joko]

like i said it sounds like you totallty blame her

[trolly61]

I think thats what the call bell is for! No I dont blame the nurse, I just think things should have been done differently.
I came on here to ask about the open door policy, not to be accused of blaming anyone. I just want honest answers. I need to know what happened and the nurse was the last person to talk to my daughter.
To be honest Joko I find your manner really unsympathetic.

[factor-fiction]

Okay, well I am going to back out of this one as i have nothing to add- I still think you should have the meeting first and see what happens. I am sure the senior staff will have asked the nurse for a full account. I hope you found my ideas helpful and hope i didn't sound unsympathtic. I don't think joko was intending to appear unsysmpathetic either- I think that his answers were just not what you were looking for.
We have some nurses on here- maybe one of them- or Sqad- will see the thread and give a more informed answer

[Sqad]

\\\\Hi my 25 year old daughter passed away recently after being given bad news by a Junior nurse, she suffered a cardiac arrest. \\\\

That doesn't sound feasible.

The post mortem result will be crucial here.

Meet with the senior staff first.

Boxtops is the person for advice here.

[joko]

exactly right factor... i am not unsympathetic, i am just putting forward thoughts from the hospitals angle... because believe me that is what they are doing...and its something you have not considered, because understandably you are coming from an emotional angle.

i have given you honest, realistic answers, and offered possible solutions.
you will not change hospital policy here.

and as for the call bell, it would have take 2-3-4 times as long to get the mask then ... for a nurse (assuming they weren't all dealing with other patients) to come to the room, be told what was needed, and then go and fetch it and bring it back... either way it would not have prevented the cardiac arrest... even if the mask was in the room it would not have stopped it.

it also depends on whether your daughter actually couldnt breathe, or was feeling a bit unwell and felt like a bit of oxygen might help. that would explain a bit of the nurses actions.

like i said she probably thought it quicker to get it herself.

good luck, hope you sort it.

[trolly61]

Sqad, it is certainly feasible, she had a heart condition which was well controlled. However with her type of heart condition, any severe anxiety can cause arrythmia and if the arrythmia is bad enough, cardiac arrest. She wasnt in hospital because of her heart, she was in for a routine thing. To be honest, I came on here only to ask about the open door policy with the NHS not to discuss my daughters conditions, so if we can just stick to that please. Thanks

[Baldric]

Hi, sorry for your loss.

If the bad news given to your daughter was about another patient isn't 'patient confidentiality' involved somewhere?

[cathfromsaron]

terribly sorry!

you can ask in a non-confrontational way to meet her because she was the last person your daughter saw ... but any whiff of scandal they will 'lose' the file!