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Linotype | 13:08 Thu 19th Mar 2015 | How it Works

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Here's one for the clever people to consider ... seems I've been wrong all these years into thinking I knew basic Roman numerals(!) For close on three score years and ten I've been led to believe that in RN the figure four was represented by IV (One before V) ... clearly not the case ... take a look at your watch (if it in Roman nums – or take a look at one the next time you walk past a jeweller's watch. You will see in the 'four' position four x IIII. Go figure ... it's true!

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Fitzer

Best Answer

Clocks and watches tend to use IIII as opposed to IV, there is a legend that says that one of the Louis' of France mistakenly thought that IIII was the correct way of showing 4 and insisted on it on clocks for Versailles and everyone else followed suit. Others say that it is used as it balances VIII at the 8 position on the other side of the dial. In true Roman notation...

13:16 Thu 19th Mar 2015

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Svejk

I think the crossword compilers use IV. ;) Fraid I haven't got a watch.

tonyav

I've spotted one that has IV for four.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=roman+numeral+wrist+watch&;rlz=1C2FDUM_enGB494&biw=1280&bih=622&;tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xb0KVYDbNYKHO9_9geAD&ved=0CEgQsAQ

Fitzer

New Judge

Rumour has it (and it’s only a rumour) that it is to do with the Roman God Jupiter. This was spelt “IVPPITER” in Latin. Hesitant to put part of the god's name on a sundial or in accounting books, IIII became the preferred representation of four. It is said that clockmakers may have stuck with IIII just for the sake of tradition.

Interestingly, one of the world’s most famous public clocks, that in “Big Ben” (or more properly the Elizabeth Tower) uses IV for four.

New Judge

And that's III explanations - II from Fitzer and I from me. Will anybody make it IV (or should that be IIII)?

ToraToraTora

yes IIII is traditionally used on clock faces and is equally valid. It is also the case that the long form is generally valid for the lowest factors of the intended number, eg XXXXXXXXXX is valid for C but LL is not though XXXXX is valid for L etc etc. It's just that we generally use the short hand letter where possible.

mallyh

google roman numerals iiii and it will explain a few things .

Baldric

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_numerals#Alternative_forms

Stephen_G

I've got one of each - Mantel Clock is IIII and Carriage Clock on Fireplace is IV

stuey

There are two reasons for using "IIII" instead of "IV". One is that it appears more symmetrical on the dial, and the other is so that it wont be confused with "VI".

stuey

It's also interesting to note that in most watch or clock pictorial ads that the hands are set at "ten to two" or even "ten after ten". This effectively and symmetrically frames the maker's name.

pixie373

I heard it was to make a "smile" study, so they look more attractive... :-)
Both IIII and IV mean 4.

pixie373

Stuey....autocorrect. Sorry!

sherrardk

I thought it was a smiley face too!

Jackdaw33

If you look at the obverse of a coin of the reign of William IV you will see that it bears his name in Latin as Gulielmus IIII.

Also, in mediaeval manuscripts the number four was often written as iiii or iiij, i and j being interchangeable in Latin.

pixie373

Good :-)

stuey

I've never heard that one, pixie373; however, a "smile"would be a positive wouldn't it? And advertising is all about being positive.