ChatterBank1 min ago
Welsh Slate
20 Answers
I am about to have my roof re slated with new type concrete slate with brass studs. My existing slates are Welsh slate 130 years old. Do the Welsh slates have a resale value? They are in decent condition but roof has tired iron nails and batten fatigue.
Answers
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Thanks for that link, Sweaty. I have come across thse when I did some work in Stroud. Lovely yellow/brown Cotswold stone. Yes,they are heavy, but modern concrete tiles can weigh in at around 50kg/square metre. Although, it's still minimal compared to the vast weight of all that cob and stone. Its the timber roof structure that matters more. David......
16:26 Sat 23rd Apr 2016
First off... "nail sickness" with iron nails would suggest that this is either the original roof, or that the roof was re-nailed a long time ago.
TWR mentions "ripping" them off. This would be the case with a more recent re-nail, as the nails would be in better condition. I would guess that, in your case, the slates should be removed starting from the top. Each slate should be carefully lifted off. Either the nails will finally break, or the hole in the slate would enlarge to allow the head of the nail to pass through.
Either way, Welsh slates are among the best (along with Cornish Delabole.) In good condition they can be worth several pounds each. Only a close inspection would tell if they are worth this amount. After 130 years, they may well be what is known in the business as a "bag of biscuits".
I'm intrigued to know what the "brass studs" are. You say concrete, but are they possibly modern thin "fibre-cement" slates? (Used to be called Asbestos cement.) Fibre cement are nailed and also held at the bottom of the slate with a copper "crampon" which is bent over to hold them down.
Although modern, synthetic, slates/tiles work very well, they can look dreadful in comparison to a traditional, natural slate. What about having a complete re-nail using your originals plus a load of reclaimed bought to make up for inevitable breakages when removing them. This is done all the time.
Any roofer who baulks at re-nailing should be avoided (unless it's a lot cheaper of course.) A proper, traditional roofer would take great pride in covering with reclaimed slate. Others just wouldn't want the bother. It's so easy to tear off the old ones and quickly fit modern equivalents because they're so easy to lay.
TWR mentions "ripping" them off. This would be the case with a more recent re-nail, as the nails would be in better condition. I would guess that, in your case, the slates should be removed starting from the top. Each slate should be carefully lifted off. Either the nails will finally break, or the hole in the slate would enlarge to allow the head of the nail to pass through.
Either way, Welsh slates are among the best (along with Cornish Delabole.) In good condition they can be worth several pounds each. Only a close inspection would tell if they are worth this amount. After 130 years, they may well be what is known in the business as a "bag of biscuits".
I'm intrigued to know what the "brass studs" are. You say concrete, but are they possibly modern thin "fibre-cement" slates? (Used to be called Asbestos cement.) Fibre cement are nailed and also held at the bottom of the slate with a copper "crampon" which is bent over to hold them down.
Although modern, synthetic, slates/tiles work very well, they can look dreadful in comparison to a traditional, natural slate. What about having a complete re-nail using your originals plus a load of reclaimed bought to make up for inevitable breakages when removing them. This is done all the time.
Any roofer who baulks at re-nailing should be avoided (unless it's a lot cheaper of course.) A proper, traditional roofer would take great pride in covering with reclaimed slate. Others just wouldn't want the bother. It's so easy to tear off the old ones and quickly fit modern equivalents because they're so easy to lay.
Thank you The builder, and to others for their suggestions. Builder you are right re the type of new slate you mentioned, as you say most roofers want quick job.
I have had two estimated prices one for £9000 no Vat the other from a specific roofing company for £10,000 plus vat at20% = £12,000. Nail sickness is correct, blus battens ropey. It's a three bed semi on the Isle of Wight. Next door had her side slates re fitted by her son who was a builder, now retired.
It's the Vat bit that hurts the most. I appreciate the input, many thanks.
I have had two estimated prices one for £9000 no Vat the other from a specific roofing company for £10,000 plus vat at20% = £12,000. Nail sickness is correct, blus battens ropey. It's a three bed semi on the Isle of Wight. Next door had her side slates re fitted by her son who was a builder, now retired.
It's the Vat bit that hurts the most. I appreciate the input, many thanks.
This might interest the builder. It's The Ram Inn in Wooton under Edge. The roof seems to be stone 'slates' and must weigh several tons. It seems to be pushing the building into the ground.
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Thanks for that link, Sweaty. I have come across thse when I did some work in Stroud. Lovely yellow/brown Cotswold stone. Yes,they are heavy, but modern concrete tiles can weigh in at around 50kg/square metre.
Although, it's still minimal compared to the vast weight of all that cob and stone. Its the timber roof structure that matters more.
David... Obviously I havent seen it, but I'm not happy with that 12k price. That's more than enough for a 3 bed semi. Consider that the 9k price must include vat on the materials...possibly £500 or so? I'm assuming that scaffolding is included in these prices (possibly £1000-1500).
You say next door has been re-nailed? I would have a word with the son. See if he knows of someone who might be able to do a re-nail for you. There's no possible objection to using a non-vat registered tradesman either.
Dont be bullied into going the fibre cement route. They will try it on. A re-nail may well be only marginally cheaper, but it will add more value to the house.
One more thing... I don't want to add to your worries, but a complete roof re-cover is now notifiable under Building Regs. Easily done under a "Building Notice". I can tell you how if you like.
Although, it's still minimal compared to the vast weight of all that cob and stone. Its the timber roof structure that matters more.
David... Obviously I havent seen it, but I'm not happy with that 12k price. That's more than enough for a 3 bed semi. Consider that the 9k price must include vat on the materials...possibly £500 or so? I'm assuming that scaffolding is included in these prices (possibly £1000-1500).
You say next door has been re-nailed? I would have a word with the son. See if he knows of someone who might be able to do a re-nail for you. There's no possible objection to using a non-vat registered tradesman either.
Dont be bullied into going the fibre cement route. They will try it on. A re-nail may well be only marginally cheaper, but it will add more value to the house.
One more thing... I don't want to add to your worries, but a complete roof re-cover is now notifiable under Building Regs. Easily done under a "Building Notice". I can tell you how if you like.
The Builder, so am I right that a pair of semi detached houses, one roof with Welsh slate, the other, mine,(potentially) with the new type of slate, would look wrong/silly. Also devalues the sale value?
There is also a weight issue I gather, new slate lighter etc. Because of that building regulations required. I thought it was just a case of hiring a competent roofer, but it appears not. Thank you The Builder for bothering with me.
There is also a weight issue I gather, new slate lighter etc. Because of that building regulations required. I thought it was just a case of hiring a competent roofer, but it appears not. Thank you The Builder for bothering with me.
No bother at all, David. Glad to help.
It's entirely subjective of course. A fibre-cement roof covering on its own would look Ok, but next to a natural slate roof, I think most people would notice. Just a matter of personal preference. Technically, there would be no problems with either.
In recent years, they've decided that a completely new roof, even a re-nail, would come under Building Regs. In this case, there's no weight consideration. Both would be fine. It's a matter of roof ventilation and insulation.
A Building Inspector would simply be looking for adequate ventilation. This is automatically satisfied by using modern breathable roofing felt (Tyvek; Dupont; Protec etc.)
The other thing he would need is an upgrade in insulation to modern standards. Always a good investment of course.
It's entirely subjective of course. A fibre-cement roof covering on its own would look Ok, but next to a natural slate roof, I think most people would notice. Just a matter of personal preference. Technically, there would be no problems with either.
In recent years, they've decided that a completely new roof, even a re-nail, would come under Building Regs. In this case, there's no weight consideration. Both would be fine. It's a matter of roof ventilation and insulation.
A Building Inspector would simply be looking for adequate ventilation. This is automatically satisfied by using modern breathable roofing felt (Tyvek; Dupont; Protec etc.)
The other thing he would need is an upgrade in insulation to modern standards. Always a good investment of course.
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