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Islam & Terrorism

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birdie1971 | 01:34 Sat 27th May 2017 | Society & Culture
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I've heard it said that the reason we in the west are experiencing Islamic terrorism is because of the west's meddling in the Middle East – the removal of Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi being prime examples. The removal of these dictators has fueled this rise in Islamist factions in those countries and hence the rise of Islamic terrism worldwide. At least, that is what 'they' say.

Jermy Corbin said as much in a speech just the other day. On the surface it all sounds quite plausible. That is until you start to think about it in any depth.

If the west's meddeling in the Middle East is the cause of such artrocities in the west such as the appaling attack in my own city – Manchester – then I have a few questions:

1. Why has Australia been subjected to Islamic terror?
2. Why has Bali (in the muslim country of Indonesia) been subjected to Islamic terror?
3. Why have the Philippines been subjected to Islamic terror?
4. Why were 20+ coptic Christians murdered in Egypt by Islamists this week?

I could go on and on and on with further examples of Islamic terrosism that has nothing whatsoever to do with the Middle East. Suffice to say that Islamic terrorism is not about the politics of the Middle East. That's just a convenient excuse made by apologists who don't want to or simply don't understand Koranic scipture.
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We have interfered in the Middle East for as long as I can remember, but the rise in terrorism is comparatively recent. I believe that the main reason for this, is allowing people from other countries who are so far removed from our culture, to settle and ignore the fact that many don’t integrate. Those born here probably have tales of ‘the old country’...
13:49 Sat 27th May 2017
I ought to have read Euripides' Trojan Women. (Did the Alcestis for A-Level, though).

What happens when you lose the war, die and your women and children are enslaved?

Sparta, Mycenae and Athens syndrome (rather than Stockholm) then for Andromache etc who now had to come to terms with a degrading future.

But the story of the Iliad is that the Trojans resisted this outcome. Hector and Paris fought and lost. (That's why the Iliad is in the heroic genre).

The rather different story of Merkel's, Macron's and May's Europe is that we're going to lose, so cut out the middle man and hope our new masters will be kind to us.
By "middle man" I meant fighting for our culture.
>>> Why has Australia been subjected to Islamic terror?

Operation Okra, perhaps?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Okra


>>> Why has Bali (in the muslim country of Indonesia) been subjected to Islamic terror?

Perhaps because extremists see 'not being Muslim enough' as at least as bad as, or worse than, being 'Crusaders' (as ISIS often refer to Western countries in their statements)?
[i.e. moderate Muslims, who don't conform to the strictest interpretations of Sharia Law, are viewed as 'infidels']


>>> Why have the Philippines been subjected to Islamic terror?

Amongst other things, it's to do with a desire for independence for Bangsamoro, which was rejected by the Philippines Congress, with the (Islamic) Maute Group supporting that cause. (i.e. it's far more to do with politics than religion in many ways, much as the Catholic/Protestant struggle in Northern Ireland was really far more about political differences than religious ones)


>>> Why were 20+ coptic Christians murdered in Egypt by Islamists this week?

Probably because extremists regard Egypt as an Islamic state (which, indeed, it is, as the country's constitution requires all legislation to conform to Islamic law) and they reject anything which they see as 'watering down' the influence of Islam within their country.
I think the OP was asking if any of this violence was based on scripture.

Are you saying none of it is, Buenchico?
Or some of it is?
Or it's all a reaction to Western imperialism?

Your own knowledge of the sources extends to a quotation of the Talmud from Sura 5:32, doesn't it?

For a person of your research skills rather pathetic. You really should read the preceding and following verses: ayat 31 and ayat 33.
Stick to software.

Because it isn't a complete explanation.

The foreign interventions, where we thought we had to try and put things right may well act as a recruiting tool for these groups; and we ought not ignore the consequences any more that we should leave our front door open when we go shopping and then say we had nothing to do about the theft of our PC and TV because it is all the thief's fault; they ought not steal. But the desire of some sects to hit at the infidel and anyone that tolerates them; and the desire to have power in a State where oppressive rules can be enforced and the society driven backwards to some dark age time; would still exist. It is in the mind set of those brainwashed from birth to think this is right, and comes to a head in some psychopath types, for whom any means are justified by the yearned for end.

Regards your examples, I am unsure one can select certain instances and put them together as one thing. It is possible each has it's own set of causes. That those predominantly in the Middle East that preach this violence have spread around the world, doesn't mean that the Middle East isn't involved. Many would consider those there brethren. We have had threads here recently where some made the ludicrous suggestion that family defined nationality rather than place of birth. I suspect some cultures teach their children to feel greater ties to their family's originating tribe, in preference to where they are born or reside, than others do. Helping one oppressed side against the oppressing side in those areas will cause emotional responses world-wide.
Last evening on Sky News, Malcolm Rifkind gave a very clear picture why terrorist attacks are events quite separate from foreign interventions, beginning with 9/11.

Did anyone watch this?
'I think the OP was asking if any of this violence was based on scripture'

There's absolutely zero evidence of this. You seem to be making up your own question.
//We have had threads here recently where some made the ludicrous suggestion that family defined nationality rather than place of birth. //

How is that ludicrous? A friend of mine was born in Australia because his British dad was in the Navy, based there. He's no more Australian than I am. My son's fiancée was born and brought up in Lithuania but thinks of herself as Russian because her family are Russian.

It can work the other way. People with foreign heritage who were born and brought up here think of themselves as British.

I don't think nationality has anything to do with Islam.
The West's foreign policy has of course not created the violent passages in the Quran, and it has not created jihadi violence in itself.

What it has done, though, is rendered vast swathes of Africa and the Middle East ungovernable and thereby handed groups like IS the territory, resources, and population to orchestrate international terror which they otherwise would not have. Nobody had heard or cared about IS before they conquered northern Iraq and eastern Syria and before they did so they were pretty much an irrelevance.

I don't think that Western intervention *caused* Islamic terrorism. It probably hasn't helped the situation much, although I'd argue that's because we haven't intervened in an effective way, never committing to the longer-term work that would be needed.

Still, I think it's a bold assertion that the situation in the Middle East has nothing *at all* to do with terrorism (unless I've mixed two sentences there). It may not be the main reason, but it plays its part all the same.
Zacs; //
'I think the OP was asking if any of this violence was based on scripture'

There's absolutely zero evidence of this.//

How can you say such a thing? These people are being radicalised by barely-educated imams giving extreme interpretations of the Koran in mosques, prisons and homes. Foreign Intervention has little to do with jihad.
I hadn't realised that you were born in Australia Jo.
Gudday.
Lol, O_G. I've never been there.
Well Zacs, my interpretation of the OP was related to "the west's meddling in the Middle East" and if this were so why certain atrocities have occurred; and the claim that it has nothing to do with the Middle East. As far as I can see the only reference to scripture was the last word, so the emphasis on replies is to indicate that Middle East activities do have an effect and one can't simply dismiss them because one wants there to be a single cause.
If, as the OP postulates, terror attacks have 'nothing whatsoever to do with the middle east' then how can they have anything to do with Koranic scripture which originates in the Middle East?

Poorly worded and thought out question.
Prime Minister Theresa May, in her public statement after the Manchester blast, stated:
"We struggle to comprehend the warped and twisted mind that sees a room packed with young children not as a scene to cherish but as an opportunity for carnage.... But we can continue to resolve to thwart such attacks in future. To take on and defeat the ideology that often fuels this violence."
May was careful to avoid naming the ideology, - why?

British politicians seem have become intoxicated by the propaganda of those who prefer to term any action to limit Islamic extremism or terrorism "Islamophobia." When the government decides to look the other way, it allows many malpractices to flourish under the skin of British Muslim communities, among whom any action to protect the country would be stigmatized by apologists as "Islamophobic."
We have interfered in the Middle East for as long as I can remember, but the rise in terrorism is comparatively recent.

I believe that the main reason for this, is allowing people from other countries who are so far removed from our culture, to settle and ignore the fact that many don’t integrate.

Those born here probably have tales of ‘the old country’ rammed down their throats, and the internet has allowed like minded people to hook up and easily convert others.
This, coupled with the fact that the powers-that-be are too afraid to use the words ‘Muslim’ or ‘Islamic’ in the same sentence as the word ‘Terrorism’ for fear of upsetting the status quo.
They would rather read from their prepared list of platitudes: We will not give in to terrorism/The terrorists will not win/Our hearts go out to/I will be chairing a COBRA meeting/Other world leaders have sent their condolences.

Jeremy Corbyn’s speech yesterday was just an attempt to make political gain by piggybacking a tragedy. I doubt he would have tackled the subject if it wasn’t for Manchester.
it's in their instruction manual -
here are the instructions from the koran:-

Quran at-Tawbah (9:29)Kill the Christians and the Jews.
Quran al-Anfal (8:39) Kill all non-Muslims till only Allah is worshipped.
Quran An-Nisa (4:89) Those who leave Islam, kill them wherever you find them.
ON AND ON IT GOES
Quran at-Tawbah (9:123) O, Muslims, fight those adjacent to you of thedisbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is withthe righteous.

Read Quran at-Tawbah (9:29) Kill the Christians and theJews.

Quran al-Anfal (8:39) Kill all non-Muslims till only Allahis worshipped.

Quran An-Nisa (4:89) Those who leave Islam, kill themwherever you find them.

ON AND ON IT GOES

Quran at-Tawbah (9:123) O, Muslims, fight those adjacent toyou of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allahis with the righteous.

5:33-?Thepunishment ofthose who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strivewith might andmain for mischief through the land is:execution (by beheading),orcrucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exilefrom the land: that is their disgrace inthis world, and a heavy punishment istheirs in the Hereafter;?

8:12- ?Iwill instill terror into the hearts of theunbelievers: smite ye above theirnecks and smite all their finger-tips off.?

47:4- ?Therefore, when ye meet theUnbelievers(in fight), strike off theirheads; atlength; then when you have madewide Slaughter among them,carefully tie up the remaining captives?: thereafter (is thetime for)either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.?

9:123: ?Oh ye who believe! Murderthose of the disbelievers and letthem find harshness in you.?

2:191- ?Kill them wherever you findthem,and drive them out from wherever they drove you out.?

5: 45-- ?We ordained therein for them:?Life for life, eyeforeye, nose for nose, ear for ear. Toth for tooth, and wounds equal forequal.?

2:193- ?Fightthem on until there is no more tumult andreligion becomes that of Allah?

9:29- "Fightthose whodo not believe in God and the last day... and fight People of theBook,(Christian and Jews) who do not accept the religion of truth(Islam) untilthey pay tribute (Zizziya tax) by hand, being inferior.?

8:17?Itis not ye who Slew them;it is God; when thou threwest a handful of dust, it wasnot Thy act, but God?s?..? (Allah is a real mercifulindeed!)



Muslims”, They have notprogressed into the modern world.
Koran 2:191 "slay the unbelievers wherever youfind them"
Koran 3:21 "Muslims must not take the infidelsas friends"
Koran 5:33 "Maim and crucify the infidels ifthey criticize Islam"
Koran 8:12 "Terrorize and behead those whobelieve in scriptures other than the Koran"
Koran 8:60 " Muslims must muster all weapons toterrorize the infidels"
Koran 8:65 "The unbelievers are stupid, urgeall Muslims to fight them"
Koran 9:5 "When the opportunity arises, killthe infidels wherever you find them"
Koran 9:123 "Make war on the infidels living inyour neighborhood"
Koran 22:19 "Punish the unbelievers withgarments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water, melt their skin andbellies"
Koran 47:4 "Do not hanker for peace with theinfidels, behead them when you catch them"
thats not to say, all muslims follow their book to the letter, quit the opposite if number's are correct in their followers etc, the wordl would be in total chaos if it were so, or you could say not really with western armed tec, easily be wiped out, but that's not a cure for an ideology
that spans the earth, i think they ie militant islamists will be with us forever, the west made mistakes interferring in there internal affairs
ie pushing western freedoms? i remeber during the vietnam war, it was said inside every commie is a westerner trying to get out.

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