The knotty problem of 'freedom of speech' and religious extremists...part forty seven

[sp1814]

The extremist Christian group, Westboro Baptist Church is planning to picket the funeral of Elizabeth Taylor.

One tweet from Margie Phelps, daughter of the church’s leader Fred Phelps, said: “She [Taylor] was a proud ***! Now she’s in Hell. WBC will picket funeral!”

Another said: “Her whoredoms enabled filthy f*gs! She now answers for her gr8 sin in hell! WBC will picket funeral!”, while a third said: “No peace for *** who taught proud sin! Too late for her to repent! Westboro will picket funeral.”

Do you agree that this falls within the bounds of freedom of speech, or do you see parallels between this form of protest and the infamous poppy-burning episode last November?

Remember - the WBC also protested at funerals of recently killed troops from Afghanistan.

Where do people stand on this?

[Buenchico]

The right to offend is an essential part of free speech. It was ridiculous that the poppy-burning guy was prosecuted. He should be praised for standing by his principles, as should the WBC.

Chris

[sandyRoe]

If you value freedom of speech you have to accept that sometimes you'll hear things said that you wish you hadn't.

[NOX]

I stand that you let the red neck muppets say whatever they like, because as repugnant as they are ( and they ARE), there is no way I'm allowing them to turn me into anything resembling themselves by objecting to their freedom of speech.

[jno]

the Americans have different rules.

There are many potential freedoms. Freedom of speech is just one, and it shouldn't take precedence. Should I be allowed to demand in public that all Jews be killed? No, because their right to live without harassment is more important than my right to say the first dumb thing that comes into my head.

[sp1814]

Let's personalise it - and I'm playing devils advocate here...how would your feelings be tempered if they turned up at the funeral of one of your loved ones and picketed it?

Aren't there limits? I mean, isn't this tantamount to causing a breach of the peace (whatever that means)?

I'd be really interested to hear from those who called for lengthy sentences for the poppy-burners, because in terms of causing offence, I think this is pretty much in the same ball park.

[NOX]

Coming from west Belfast Sp I've had people turn up and do a lot worse at funerals, but addressing what you directly asked, of course I'd be angry and upset and all of the other normal human emotions, but no I wouldn't still budge from the pov that people are entitkled to say pretty much whatever they like, and likewise I am entitled to retaliate.

[Sir Alec]

Anybody who protests at a funeral is sick in my view.

[Buenchico]

As someone who believes that it should be illegal to arrange or attend a funeral (because they're totally pointless) or to erect any form of memorial to anyone who's dead (same reason), I'd have been rather pleased to see someone picketing my parents' funerals (which I only attended because I couldn't be bothered to argue with certain relatives).

A friend of mine died in the early hours of Saturday morning. I will definitely NOT be attending his funeral and I couldn't care less if it was disrupted by people picketing it.

[sandyRoe]

They're all much of a muchness. The poppy burners, the redneck preacher who threatened to burn a copy of the Koran, and these people making themselves publicity from the death of a film star are outraging decency to promote their causes. .

[starone]

How would you dispose of the bodies then Chris? You would have to get rid of them somehow.

[NOX]

Yeah but chris there are lots of pointless things, no need to make them illegal though, just dont use em personally.

[ELVIS68]

I`m p!ssed off she died, someone had her in the death club at work and won £450

[askyourgran]

I agree sp there are groups who go beyond decency, their remarks are inflammatory and aimed at causing unrest. I can get extremely angry when I think of the poppy burning people who have the temerity to show their disregard against our armed forces and our way of life. That is not freedom of speech as far as I'm concerned. It only serves to make me feel disgust at the lot of them.

[Ellipsis]

I see where you're coming from sp1814.

WBC could represent a tiny minority of people. But they still think it's their "right" to interfere with the funeral, which won't change Elizabeth Taylor's opinion one bit - she's dead! - but will impact upon the grief of her mourners. It's not an exercising of free speech so much as a cheap and tacky publicity stunt. So the question is, is a funeral the place for a publicity stunt? In this instance, I'd say "No".

[Buenchico]

Starbuckone:
The local council tip.

[alexanderd]

In a well known Johnny Cash song are the lines" I respect your right to burn my flag if you respect my right to shoot you"

[James-Foster]

Personally I believe that this is not the same as the demonstrators who burned the poppies on Armastice Day, as Elizabeth Taylor did not die fighting for the right to free speech/freedom from oppression, etc. I would, however, agree that EVERYONE should have the right to free speech. The recent poppy burning incident was not free speech, as speech does not need fire.

[dr b]

Let's be clear about what it means to picket the funeral - the WBC will not be visible from whatever venue the funeral will be held at. In the Supreme Court case just decided, the father of the dead soldier who sued WBC was not even aware of their presence until he heard about it on the news later that day. Most localities have ordinances that strictly limit where and when such protests can take place, and these have been held to be constitutional. So, what will happen is that on the day of the funeral, 5 or 6 idiots will be a half mile away spewing nonsense. That's our First Amendment in action - one of the few issues that has united the conservative and liberal wings of our Supreme Court lately.

If the press did not cover these pickets no one would know they were there.

[Ellipsis]

Thanks for that, dr b. I inferred something a bit more up close and personal from the word "picket".

Even so, it's nothing but a cheap publicity stunt. Shameful ...

[birdie1971]

Dr B – Very informative.

The WBC are clearly deeply unpleasant; amply demonstrated in Louis Theroux's, documentary...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOrz5k0jWdU


However, being deeply unpleasant does not mean that they shouldn't be able to air their views. Obviously the USA has different laws than the UK. In fact the USA is far more 'free' in terms of freedom of speech than the UK.